Baker Lake boating rules

[Kokanee Katcher]

Last Sockeye season, a campmate was warned by the WDFW officer that he was in violation of the rules by not having his 12' inflatable with a 3hp outboard registered when operating on Baker Lake, since it was Federal Waters.

I have contacted the Coast Guard in Bellingham, Coast Guard legal in Seattle, Whatcom County Marine Division, Forest Service in Sedrow Wooley, and the head of Law Enforcement for the Forest Service overseeing the Mount Baker Ranger District and guess what; only the WDFW considers Baker Lake a Federal Water. They informed me that since the lake was in National Park land, it was therefore Federal Water. Doesn't agree with what the majority of agencies say but that doesn't seem to matter to them.

It would be nice to have an official ruling prior to the next Sockeye season.

[G-Man]

The term is Navigable Waters. Baker Lake is not on the list of navigable waters located in Washington State. http://www.nws.usace.army.mil/Portals/2 ... _State.pdf
The WDFW employee must have been talking out of the wrong hole.

[Toni]

The term is Navigable Waters. Baker Lake is not on the list of navigable waters located in Washington State. http://www.nws.usace.army.mil/Portals/2 ... _State.pdf
The WDFW employee must have been talking out of the wrong hole.

American Lake is not listed and it is considered Federal Water.

I suggest you call the department of licensing and ask if Baler Lake is considered Federal. They are the ones equipped to tell you for sure. They told me about American Lake.

[Bodofish]

And course they will just write a ticket and let the courts settle it. It's just the way they do things. Best policy if your "campmate" doesn't want a ticket is to spend the money and register the boat if it's going to have a motor. The campmate can then run the boat anywhere without question. I'm guessing your "campmate" was lucky they didn't ticket them for not having all the required equipment.

http://boat.wa.gov/equip-requirements.asp

[Steelheadin360]

American Lake is not federal. I have cleared that with WDFW and USCG. Baker Lake how ever is. Pretty much if the water drains out to the ocean and is big enough to get a boat up, or it is a dammed river then it is federal water.

[Toni]

American Lake is not federal. I have cleared that with WDFW and USCG. Baker Lake how ever is. Pretty much if the water drains out to the ocean and is big enough to get a boat up, or it is a dammed river then it is federal water.

You may have cleared it with individuals in those agencies but the Dept of Licensing is where you get your boat registration. They told me I would need it if I were on American Lake.
American Lake is also patrolled by the Lakewood Police.

[Steelheadin360]

I have never been asked to present a Coast Guard OUPV by WDFW or the police down there. Which I am requried by law to have on federal water, and they are required to check. Might want to double check with DOL. Ill listen to the governing agency that make and enforce rules

[G-Man]

It bears mentioning that regulations regarding navigable/federal waters are enforced by federal employees. The WDFW officers and the police are not federal employees. Our State's DOL should only speak to our State regulations and I would not trust them to know any of the federal regs. However, they will gladly sell you a registration for just about anything, regardless if you need it or not.

[Toni]

It bears mentioning that regulations regarding navigable/federal waters are enforced by federal employees. The WDFW officers and the police are not federal employees. Our State's DOL should only speak to our State regulations and I would not trust them to know any of the federal regs. However, they will gladly sell you a registration for just about anything, regardless if you need it or not.

I asked about whether I needed to register my boat with that small motor on lakes. She recited her list of lakes and American was on it.

[Kokanee Katcher]

The term is Navigable Waters. Baker Lake is not on the list of navigable waters located in Washington State. http://www.nws.usace.army.mil/Portals/2 ... _State.pdf
The WDFW employee must have been talking out of the wrong hole.

If you do some research, you will find the term "Federal Waters" listed in conjunction with Navigable Waters. There are no clear definitions of Federal Waters that I can find. The Washington State Boaters Guide mentions Federally controlled waters under required equipment checklist and when I questioned the Washington State Parks in regard to this issue, they had no idea what status Baker Lake was under. I have found other posts on the internet in regard to this also and they never get a concrete answer.

[Kokanee Katcher]

And course they will just write a ticket and let the courts settle it. It's just the way they do things. Best policy if your "campmate" doesn't want a ticket is to spend the money and register the boat if it's going to have a motor. The campmate can then run the boat anywhere without question. I'm guessing your "campmate" was lucky they didn't ticket them for not having all the required equipment.

http://boat.wa.gov/equip-requirements.asp

Your solution is not out of reason. One of the agencies I contacted said that going to court as a guinea pig for the boaters and letting a judge sort this out would work but they didn't offer to fund the ticket for me. In regard to the "just register your boat suggestion," why should anyone have to spend money on that if it isn't required by law? And as for the ticket for not having the required equipment on board, that would only apply if the WDFW is able to write the ticket and the Federal Law Enforcement person indicated that they don't have the authority. See G-man's post in this regard; exactly what I was told.

[G-Man]

American Lake is not considered navigable waters by the federal government. The rules regarding waters in which federal regulations apply are typically those which support or did support commercial boat traffic at one time. American Lake my abut Federal land, but that does not mean it falls under Federal Jurisdiction with regards to boating requirements. The final word on this would come from the Coast Guard/US Government and not the State of Washington.

[Steelheadin360]

After shooting the USGC an email I was sent this list. This is a complete list of all federal waters and water deemed non-federal by the United States Government.

http://www.uscg.mil/d13/docs/cg_navigable_waterways.pdf

As far as water not listed it states this

Waterways not contained on this list may or may not be navigable. There absence indicates
that no determination has been made by the Coast Guard, the courts, or by Congress concerning
their navigability. This list is subject at change at any time should a new or contrary
determination be made

Which when I asked them to clarify if they could enforce federal boating regulations on non-listed federal waters they said this

If the body of water or river system you are operating a vessel on is not listed, and not tidal influenced, then Navigable Waterway Rules are not enforced and fall under the rules posted by the State, County and City

Long story short Baker Lake isn't listed (eating my words here) and I am 100% sure I know which WDFW officer was harassing your buddy. Because he gave me the run around on several occasions. USCG and the Government decide if the water is federal or not, not a state ran agency. Under WDFW and Washington state laws that boat doesn't need to be registered

[geljockey]

I saw the following post on another forum in regard to defining federal waters:

"Here's the EXACT definition of Federal Waters, as obtained from WA DOL.

Federal waters, where registration is required on all mechanically propelled vessels regardless of size (gas, diesel, electric), include Puget Sound, Hood Canal, Lake Washington, Lake Union, Lake Sammamish, Columbia River, Snake River, Lake Washington Ship Canal, Capitol Lake, Pend Oreille River, Walla Walla River, Yakima River, and other bodies of water effected by the ebb and flow of the tide and are on or bordering federal land. For further clarification of federal waters, please contact the local marine law enforcement office in the jurisdiction.

Exception: Vessels equipped with propulsion machinery of less than ten horsepower that: (a) Are owned by the owner of a vessel for which a valid vessel number has been issued; (b) Display the number of that numbered vessel followed by the suffix "1" in the manner prescribed by the department; and (c) Are used as a tender for direct transportation between that vessel and the shore and for no other purpose are not required to be registered.
"

[G-Man]

I had thought we had killed this horse, but it seems it needs to be beaten a bit more. The Federal Government makes the decision on whether or not their rules will apply to a specific body of water, not the State. Getting any information from the State of Washington regarding Federal/Navigable waters is at best, sketchy and they will err on the side of extracting money from your pocket. Get your information from the Coast Guard's website or call the USCG district 13 office in Seattle for the official word.

[Bodofish]

And course they will just write a ticket and let the courts settle it. It's just the way they do things. Best policy if your "campmate" doesn't want a ticket is to spend the money and register the boat if it's going to have a motor. The campmate can then run the boat anywhere without question. I'm guessing your "campmate" was lucky they didn't ticket them for not having all the required equipment.

http://boat.wa.gov/equip-requirements.asp

Your solution is not out of reason. One of the agencies I contacted said that going to court as a guinea pig for the boaters and letting a judge sort this out would work but they didn't offer to fund the ticket for me. In regard to the "just register your boat suggestion," why should anyone have to spend money on that if it isn't required by law? And as for the ticket for not having the required equipment on board, that would only apply if the WDFW is able to write the ticket and the Federal Law Enforcement person indicated that they don't have the authority. See G-man's post in this regard; exactly what I was told.

My boats are fully equipped with all the necessary safety equipment plus a lot more and I pay to register all my motorized vessels. So when I come across someone who refuses to register and equip their boat with all necessary safety items because they're too cheap or are trying to prove a point with a local law enforcement entity or just be a weasel, should I use my equipment and hard earned money to save them? And further, should my tax dollars vis a vis the local law, be used to save someone who chooses to not register and equip their boat with the minimum safety equipment? It seems the people whom I always end up saving are those that have no business being out on the water, are using a craft that should never see more than a wet lawn, have no safety equipment or maybe just a lifejacket. "I can't afford it.", is no excuse as is "it's all I got." and "why should I spend........". Don't kid yourself, I save several people every year, from out of gas to Oh s#it I just put the bait knife through my hand and the sinking boat because they only brought one plug and it doesn't fit. I'm just glad the boaters card covers almost everyone now and allows law enforcement to weed them out of the boating population.

I guess the bottom line is and what I'm saying is why should I pay for everyone who doesn't. We aren't talking about basic human necessities, we're talking leisure, extracurricular and or luxury pursuits here. So I hope regardless of whether your "campmate" decides to register the boat or not, the boat get outfitted with all the necessary equipment to go boating safely.

[ncwflounderer]

if your boat is 12' and shorter, and you have a motor of less than 15hp you do not need to have a boater safety card

[Bodofish]

And yet my point is proven once again......... Just because you can, doesn't mean you should.

if your boat is 12' and shorter, and you have a motor of less than 15hp you do not need to have a boater safety card

[jd39]

if your boat is 12' and shorter, and you have a motor of less than 15hp you do not need to have a boater safety card

Did the regs change? I thought it was 14' or less and less than 10hp motors were the threshold, hence all the 9.8 and 9.9 hp motors. Could be wrong but those were the thresholds last I checked.
I plan on getting the boater safety card anyway, to Bodo's point, I think it's a good idea. Plus when I'm ready to upgrade I don't want that in the way.

[geljockey]

I had thought we had killed this horse, but it seems it needs to be beaten a bit more. The Federal Government makes the decision on whether or not their rules will apply to a specific body of water, not the State. Getting any information from the State of Washington regarding Federal/Navigable waters is at best, sketchy and they will err on the side of extracting money from your pocket. Get your information from the Coast Guard's website or call the USCG district 13 office in Seattle for the official word.

I made my post support a post about not getting your information about federal waters from DOL.