I had a long conversation with Chris, at WDFW enforcement regarding jonb's reports. Chris confirmed, jonb is totally legal catching and releasing rainbows that are below the minimum size limit with bait because for this stretch of water 14" is the minimum (unlike a lot of lakes that have no minimum size limit). In Chris's opinion, he thought that at least some of these fish may be unclipped hatchery smolts, which he did not express a concern about being caught. He was more concerned with the possibility of sea-run cutts being caught and released. Again, not illegal.

I know this will generate a lot of discussion so I'm going ask that you keep it civil and not be in attack mode. jonb knows he can delete any obnoxious posts. And I'll remind people to not make personal attacks (direct or oblique) because that will be viewed as a violation of the terms of service you agreed to when you registered for this site. Thank you.

keep targeting juvenile steelhead and wonder why the steelhead returns are low!

JonB is fishing within the rules outlined in the Washington State Fishing Regulations. It has also been established that he was not fishing for juvenile steelhead (see post and comments from 1/25/14), but rather native rainbow trout that were preying on steelhead eggs/fry. If anything, if you're concerned about steelhead numbers, you should be THANKING JonB for what he has done since he is potentially helping the juvenile steelhead population by reducing the number of predators that eat steelhead eggs and fry. This should result in HIGHER steelhead numbers in the future since more eggs/fry will survive to adulthood. JonB is fishing legally. If you care about steelhead populations, fishing for their predator the rainbow trout is actually a good thing. Bad thing for trout fly fishermen like me, but oh well.

Thank you lord of the fly, my exact sentinents :)

Are you guys aware that there are very few native rainbow in West Slope streams.
Also, steelhead smolts spend an average of 2-3 years and up to 4 years rearing in freshwater. By the time they migrate out they are often 12-14 inches long and look just like a native rainbow.
I missed how you established they were "native rainbow" exactly...?

This discussion was on my last report gsiegel. Read it you will see, I dont feel like re argueing my point. I really am over it. Its a legal fishery like it or not. If you want it to change contact your local representive or call wdfw. Telling me about it is a waste of time, because I dont care. I bask in your hate and jeleousy it fuels me. For it was the stealhead elitist hording knowledge who made it harder for me to relearn fishing when I was new in this state. I will now spread the knowledge ive hard earned of these fruitful legal fisheries dispite the hate of the self entitled native washingtonian stealhead elitists, or anyone else. Your hate and jeleously only further acknowledge my success And therefor fuel me to con tinue catching trout in the rivers. I find it impossible that out of 150 trout caught 0 had clipped fins if they were all stealhead like you claim 80% would have clipped fins. 0 did I rest my case. 0 trout were kilked in the making of this report.

Though legal, is it responsible? Problem with this is, the science does exist to prove the correlation between resident trout and wild Steelhead breeding, plus the in river smolt mortality of bait caught fish. If you think this isn't going to end up on the chopping block soon you would have to be blind. With a lawsuit now on the table to end Steelhead hatchery production on these rivers because of the negligible impact on wild fish, where do you think this kind of fishery is headed? I'll tell you, no bait and zero "rainbow" retention in our rivers. All because we cannot police ourselves, someone else will do it for us.

"Hate and jealousy"...? Didn't mean that... or get it?

Elitest suck, I'll take you Steelhead fishing and give out what knowledge I've got.

Actually gsiegel not you, your post wasnt tgat bad I was rrfering to the others that have left nasty comments. I lumped sll steelhead guys together when I ssid that and that was wrong. You and calicoi have made reasonable arguements more of a forethought for those who may hate or have hated. My rebuttle to you calicoi is this: if its irresponsible for me to c&r trout that may or may not be redident trout, than how is it respobsible for you steelhead guys to go out and hook, drag in and kill steelhead. I say its hypocracy and neither party is more resposible than the other therefor I will continue as I have until the law says otherwise.

I kill hatchery fish, the soon to be extinct variety at that! Like I suggested in your other post, catch and release all the juvi hatchery steelhead you want, that's what we pay to have them in the river for. The little native fish though need all the help we can give them. With nets, pollution, habitat degradation and all the other assorted real problems to our native fish stocks, I seriously doubt your making that large of an impact. But perhaps the 900 people that viewed your last post will? I've said it before, its legal and your doing the right thing c+r them, all I put out there was that we stock a metric ton of trout in our lakes throughout this state to kill for dinner and it might be more responsible to kill those.

I also am willing to argue that rainbow trout are not rare in the snohomish system and that they are in fact healthy in population seeing as I caught 150 in the last month none of which showed defibative signs of being steelhead. If I find any HARD proof that im catching steelhead juves I will stop targetting trout on the wallace. I would concider 1 clipped fin on 1 fish from the wallace as definitive proof. As far as the argunent that steel breed with resdent trout goes I will dismisd not because I believe its untrue but because tgey c as n breed with hatch steel anf yet people can catch and kill those and be praised for it. I see it as hypocracy. Especially ifvth we argunebt cones from sonronecwho gas ever killed a native on the op.

The lakes are slow for trout fishing right now. If I wanted to bore myself to death I would watch golf on tv

As far as your offer to go stealheading goes. I would take you up on that if you were serious. If I had a truely better opportunity than fishing the wallace for trout id take it. But youd be hard pressed to find a more productive fishery this time of year on the west side.

Haha never said it would be productive, but we have a couple weekends were the rivers are still open up here and I would have no problem wandering a bank and showing you what I know. I agree with the killing of natives on the OP, I've never done it.

Catching them is legal, can't stop you on that. But holding a fish out of water that you release is not only illegal but bad for the fish. You should also try and avoid holding them like you did as it takes their protective slime coating off that can and will kill them.
You should reconsider your thinking about some being steelhead and others rainbows. It is proven science that rainbow trout in streams are genetically linked to wild steelhead. So in streams with wild steelhead the resident trout will help support and keep them going. Taking them out only hurts the system. Why? Because they are the same fish. A rainbow can turn into steelhead and the other way around. Just like salmon do in lakes. But its you choice on to fish them or not just be careful with the fish and think about how many people look at this info. You arer putting a lot of pressure on these fish by reporting online and that is your choice as well.

Holfing a fish out of water is only illegal if its a dolly varden, salmon or wild steelhead (if you think it is prove it)

I only held that one fish to prove they were being lip hooked and to prove it has its adipose fin intact. The rest were left in the water and the hook was shaken out with hemastats, I didnt have any rags with me or I wouldve used it to hold the fish.

As noted with my first post, WDFW had zero concerns regarding the rainbows/possible steelhead issue. His main concern was sea run cutts. On a regulations issue, it seems to me WDFW will have to address this at some point, since it obviously from a regs point of view is very confusing and contradictory to the rule of retention of rainbows when fishing with bait on waters that have no minimum size, i.e. the "culling" issue they have to deal with.

@fear no fish pg 13 SALMON and TROUT: "It is unlawful to totally remove salmon, steelhead, dolly varden/ bull trout from the water if it is unlawful to retain thise fish, or if the angler subsequently releases salmon steelhead, dolly varden/bull trout"

Nothing there about rainbow trout or cutthroat trout
Read em and wheep.

Read this. I think you’ll find it very interesting.

http://oregonstate.edu/ua/ncs/archives/2011/jan/wild-rainbow-trout-critical-health-steelhead-populations

40% with rainbows?! I'd say thats exaggerated.

Haha JonB, I admire your post and enthusiasm for fishing. Keep doin what you do brotha and I will see you on the water soon. BTW, I still have those waders for you.

-Dj

Thanks dj

From a legal standpoint, I don't think Jonb has done anything wrong. However, personally I think there are better fisheries to target if you want to use bait. I would be thinking about using different tactics, tackle, or changing location if I started hooking even 1/4 of this amount of 8-13" fish. If you don't have the knowledge or capabilities to be catching some steelhead or decent rainbows and cutts in the lakes this time of year, maybe try targeting these small trout with a fly rod. Perhaps you will notice that you are having just as much or more fun learning a new method of fishing, rather than watching your bobber go down 100 times a day.

No disrespect intended towards you though Jonb, as I have come across many people doing far worse things than you.. so you are alright in my book and I would happily invite you to tag along with me on a steelhead outing or trolling for trout in the area's lakes if you want. I have been successful at both lately.

Its not lack of knowledge that prevents me from from hitting other fisheries, its a lack of boat, the fact that I take the bus, and thus am limitted to where I can go, and a hike in buddy, if I want trout this time of year I would hike to some of the gem subalpine lakes I know of ,but my wife has recently banned me from hiking alone, she thinks im going to get eaten by sasquatch .. lol. So the wallace is on a bus l ine, can be fished from shore, and has abuntant fish. Thats why ive been fishing there.

Cascadian, you made a very fair and polite post,kuddos to you,we could all learn from you.

JonB has made a good point out of all of this tho--we need some rule changes for the rivers and we need more fishing opportunity for this time of year so one doesn't have to resort to smolt catching to feed the family.

Wish Roosevelt walleye was protected and got this type of attention! hohumm?

Hey Jon, this is glenn. Now I totally see all the crap that you were talking about, with all the people and their rediculous posts towards you. If its legal it's good to go, happy fishin, see ya during the week ;p