Cutthroat Autopsy

[Custom]

Awesome post. Brings some interesting things to light to say the least. I definitely think I will be changin how I fish. I have recently discovered Pink Worms and used them all last winter. Guess I will think twice about which ones I use.

[Rich McVey]

Having a strict Science Background, and as a working Engineer, I just like accuracy. Often assumptions are made, not intending to place blame, and if not challenged they become the basis for mis-information and wives tales.

I'd bring up global warming/impending ice age right now, but I don't think we need to go there in this thread. (LOL)

Good post G-Man

I have an electronics engineering background and details simply rock so I have to agree with Anglinarcher on making assumptions. Im not a fish expert so reading the Q & A between G-Man and Anglinarcher is enlightening.

Any aquatic biologists have input on this topic?

[Anglinarcher]

Anglinarcher,

I wasn't looking to place blame on anyone or say that my conclusions were rock solid but just putting out some info on an unusual catch. I have also in my 30+ years of fishing found other odd objects in a fish’s stomach including rocks, cigarette butts and even pieces of cattail stalks. Recently we opened up a good sized cutt caught in Lake Washington and found several large carpenter ants in the stomach, now that's odd! Out of curiosity, I was more so looking for someone to be able to identify the bait and share similar experiences and observations. As for additional details, no problem, not being a forensic expert I was sure to leave out some important information and commit a few basic mistakes including tossing out the lizard, as the smell was absolutely wretched.
The fish was caught at approximately 8:00pm and kept cold in a cooler with what was left of my snacks until cut open at about 9:45pm. I agree with your point that it is unlikely the fish swallowed this lizard while out in the salt. But I still believe that the fish took the bait recently, while in fresh water. I just can't see this fish being in as good a condition had it been in there for a great length of time. I did mention that the bait was stiff, but to be more precise it was stiff to the point that when unfolded it needed to be held down so that I could take a picture showing its length otherwise it would refold itself. Oddly, as hard as it was it did not crack when unfolded but it was also no longer elastic. Almost all of the other foodstuffs and all of the smelt were found in front (input side of the stomach) of the lizard, with some being found with the balled up lizard, see photo. The way the lizard was positioned in the stomach cavity gave me the impression that little, if any, was going to be passing through, but hey I'm not an expert on these matters. As for how much of the lizard had been digested, take a look at the remaining flipper and the end of the tail. These thin parts are in relatively good condition while the other 3 limbs are completely missing suggesting that they were not present at the time of ingestion. Reminds me of what happens when perch nip at your curly tailed grubs and also raises the question of what happens to them if they swallow the tail. I'm interested in hearing any comments or opinions, this is after all why these forums were created.

Actually, I didn't think you were placing blame, but there was potential mis-information that might get out that could lead to incorrect conclusions. I also thought that too many people were responding without considering all aspects of the question. Sometimes to keep minds open, and to get alternate ideas coming out, one needs to play devils advocate. I don't mind the heat, so I play the advocate all too often.

It sounds as if you did great at keeping the fish cool, but of course this assumes also that you still had ice at 9:45 PM (I often don't have any left by then )

As for the butts, yea, I've seen them. I don't worry too much about organics in the fish, like pieces of cat tails, or even small rocks from caddis houses - they will pass, eventually. Carpenter Ants, well in my area in Eastern Washington and Northern Idaho, we find that Ants, even carpenter Ants, are a major summer food source. I often wonder if the butts kill the fish or not. I can't imagine that it is "healthy" for them - do they get addicted?[-(

If the bait was stiff, and if indeed the blockage was as indicated, and if it was eaten recently, than I suggest that, as you indicated, this was a dead fish swimming. I wonder if the lizard was not already in that condition when the fish picked it up. ??? Fish are weird, and that is why they have a high mortality rate. I heard of a Bass in California that smashed the world record, until they questioned how such a small fish was so heavy (disallowed). It had ingested a 10 # downrigger cannon ball. The Bass had grown a protective tumor around the ball, and the stomach had simply enlarged to allow food to bypass it, but how often does this happen?

I too have wondered about what happens when a fish ingest a curly tail? I suspect that appendages like that probably just pass on through, eventually. I had a trout one time that had an anal opening large enough to pass a minivan. Fish are quite adapted to various food sources, and trout pass crayfish shells, rocks, sticks, etc., all the time. Still, a lizard? I kind of doubt it.

The real questions comes down to what, if anything, we should do about it? I would suggest that if we banned cigarettes that we would have less forest fires, and apparently less fish kills. Now, how do you think that will fly?:-" OK, never mind.

We could ban soft baits, scented or not, but I don't think that will eliminate the problem. I saw a Bald Eagle that was found dead last year near Libby Dam Montana. The eagle had hit a lure, apparently a snagged lure that had floated free. The lure had a braided line attached, was an 8" or so jointed floating Rapala style lure, and the hooks and line bound up the feet, killing the Eagle. Sometimes freaky things happen, and Eagles are far smarter than Fish.:shaking:

I caught a trout one time that had a spinner inside, a Meps if I recall correctly. The spinner was attached to no line, and was "head first". It was as if someone had dropped the spinner over the side of the boat and the fish hit it as it was falling to the bottom, or perhaps picked it off the bottom.

As you can see, it would be almost impossible to eliminate all possible hazards to the fish, but...........................

G-Man, you started out best, and I you for it, when you suggested that we don't just through our used and damaged items overboard while fishing. How often do we pull into a boat launch and see dozens if not hundreds of beer cans on the bottom. They will be there forever. So, if I'm not at a launch, can I just toss it overboard anyway? NO Neither I, nor the other fishermen, want to see your beer cans or bottles in the wild. How about the worm containers, almost always plastic or foam? Yes, I understand that the wind can pick them up, so move them out of the wind. I get really really really tired of picking up others worm containers. If you have a hand full of fishing line because you changed your line in the field or you had a back lash you took out, don't toss it overboard - it does nothing good out there. And, if you have a broken lure, worn out plastic bait, empty bottle of power bait, please, pack it out, don't dump it in.

FYI, I hope this thread is not done, I would sure like to read others comments on this as well. I have really enjoyed the post I have seen so far.

[Rich McVey]

YUP

What do we want to leave for our grandkids? A garbage dump or pristine wilderness?

Pack it out and tread lightly!!!

[Chin_nook]

This is a pretty interesting thread. My assumption on this is that the trout picked it up and consumed it not to long ago. The lizard was a product of a snag and resulted in a knot failure on the main line. I say this because there is no trace of a knot on the swivel on the main line side. Also with out the presence of a hook, that lure must of been floating around the bottom of the lake for quite some time, hook rusted off that's why the leader is still attached to it. I really doubt that the stomach's digestive fluids are strong enough to digest it to that state of decomposition.

Last year when fishing for some hold over trout in a local lake, I caught a 5lb triploid that looked like it also had a tumor in it's anise. The trip was still healthy. When I gut the thing, I found a 4" power grub. So that swollen tumor was just the trout trying to pass it. Since the grub was in good condition (After cleaning it, it looked like it was just removed from a fresh package) no signs of it even having a hook through it.....it's really hard to speculate if this grub was discarded in the water or just accidentally dropped in the lake.

GMAN, your cutty was still healthy because it was still actively feeding.

The weirdest things I have ever run into fishing for the past 35yrs was a Pacific Halibut with 2 spark plugs in it's belly(Poor mans weight). A Dorado caught of San Diego with a baseball cap in it's belly and a 10lb bass with a "2lb talapia down it's trout . Get this, the talapai had a 3" stick bait rammed down it's throat too!

[PaulReilly]

When I gut the thing, I found a 4" power grub. So that swollen tumor was just the trout trying to pass it. Since the grub was in good condition (After cleaning it, it looked like it was just removed from a fresh package) no signs of it even having a hook through it.....it's really hard to speculate if this grub was discarded in the water or just accidentally dropped in the lake.

Did you catch any fish with it?

[Chin_nook]

When I gut the thing, I found a 4" power grub. So that swollen tumor was just the trout trying to pass it. Since the grub was in good condition (After cleaning it, it looked like it was just removed from a fresh package) no signs of it even having a hook through it.....it's really hard to speculate if this grub was discarded in the water or just accidentally dropped in the lake.

Did you catch any fish with it?

lol, in fact I did catch a 2lb bass the next day with it then snagged up and lost it later that day.

[PaulReilly]

When I gut the thing, I found a 4" power grub. So that swollen tumor was just the trout trying to pass it. Since the grub was in good condition (After cleaning it, it looked like it was just removed from a fresh package) no signs of it even having a hook through it.....it's really hard to speculate if this grub was discarded in the water or just accidentally dropped in the lake.

Did you catch any fish with it?

lol, in fact I did catch a 2lb bass the next day with it then snagged up and lost it later that day.

Now we are going to find it on another autopsy report! Keep the tradition alive!

(I'll be impressed if the next guy catches a fish with the grub in the fishes belly and then uses it to catch a 2nd fish)

[Fisherman_max]

i myself pulled half of a old senko out of a brown trouts stomach this season.


it seamed to be fine and fought just as good as a brown trout should.