Northwest Fishing Reports

I spent a late afternoon fishing a river at a park in the center of a nearby town yesterday. Small groups of teenage guys were milling about the parking lot so I had taken my small .22 pistol with me - I wasn't expecting a confrontation, I just didn't want to leave it in the car (I have a CCW permit, btw).

After catching absolutely nothing, I decided to pack it in and head back to the car. Suddenly a dog charged out of the bushes, barking at me. Two others followed closely behind. They were mongrels, one a lab mix, another some kind of setter, and the third clearly had some rottweiler in him. They stopped about five yards away and surrounded me, with my back to the river. They barked and bared teeth and gradually closed in.

No one was in sight and a wall of bushes separated the sandy bar from the rest of the park. I drew my gun and flicked the safety off, but palmed it against my thigh. I wanted to have it ready in case the dogs attacked, but I was self conscious about public reaction to a guy with a gun in a central park.

The dogs were not backing off. I love dogs and know how to talk to them, so I tried some common commands like "No!" "Down!" and "Go home!" I raised my voice but this seemed to have no effect. This went on for several minutes. Obviously no owners were going to appear, so I shifted position and backed slowly around in a half circle, until I was able to move towards the trees.

The dogs followed, still barking and making quick lunges. I backed through the trees and they followed. When we got into the main park area, they saw another dog in the field with its owner and two of them took off to bother the new targets. The remaining dog kept after me, but he was much less confident about it.

I started walking towards the parking lot, holstered my gun and dialed 911. The "helpful" operator told me to call Animal Control and gave me the number. When the last dog ran off, I called them. They had a van in the parking lot soon after I got there and I pointed out the dogs to the officer.

Afterwards, with my head cleared, I started going through the what-if's. Was I right to draw my gun? If I had to shoot, the noise would be heard all over downtown - what then? Maybe I could have picked up a rock or a stick, but it was a sandy bank - I don't think there were any rocks around but I don't really remember.

I'm sure I could have handled it better - so I'd be very interested to hear opinions and advice.

#1 carry a larger caliber .38 minimum, altho I'd recomend a .357 minimum. A .22 can hurt a dog but it's hard to kill a dog with a .22, usually. Carry a big stick.

#2 shoot the dogs if they behave that way. What if you'd been a scared kid that ran away. Now the dogs know they can get away with that behaviour.

What if the dogs had attacked the other single dog and it's owner, would you have been able to run over there and protect THEM? What did the dogs do when they ran off to them?

I too have a CCW and carry about 99% of the time when I fish for this very reason. Dogs, big cats, bears, snakes (eastern WA), and people are all a problem and can be life threatening in certain environments. If it had seemed necessary I would have fired a warning shot into the ground near the animals to try and discourage them from attacking, if they continued the aggressive behavior I would have shot and killed the first dog and continued shooting if they persisted. My guess is 1 warning shot would have sent them scattering. If possessing a CCW it is legal to draw your firearm if you feel your life is in danger, and in this case I would say it sounds like it was. Firing the weapon is a last resort, but it the dogs persisted I would have shot. Pedestrians may not understand and call the cops, but when they come it is very simple to explain that you are a card carrying civilian and you felt your life was in danger. They will take a report, and you will be on your way.

Amx wrote:#1 carry a larger caliber .38 minimum, altho I'd recomend a .357 minimum. A .22 can hurt a dog but it's hard to kill a dog with a .22, usually. Carry a big stick.

Agreed, though I expect they'd have felt my CCI Stingers a bit. I was carrying a stick, but it was only a 5wt.

Amx wrote:#2 shoot the dogs if they behave that way. What if you'd been a scared kid that ran away. Now the dogs know they can get away with that behaviour.

That thought ran through my mind - did I have a responsibility to put down the dogs myself? Luckily I was able to leave that to Animal Control.

Amx wrote:What if the dogs had attacked the other single dog and it's owner, would you have been able to run over there and protect THEM? What did the dogs do when they ran off to them?

They didn't mess with the other guy much. I guess because he had a dog and they were more interested in sniffing butt. He was OK and I later met him at the parking lot (got to pet his friendly, well-mannered hunting dog too...).

Hard to say with out actually being there but... My smallest is a .380 ACP. Not very loud and doesnt sount like a "Real" gunshot. I dont typically carry the 38 SP due to its size and weight.

Being alone, drawing your weapon was not unreasonable. The dogs size would make a big difference. 3 dogs the size of mine (95 pounds)... I dont want to think about it.

I would not bend down to get a rock or stick, especially if carrying a gun. Good chance they would take advantage of that and move in.

Glad the outcome was not more serious.

I just moved to Woodinville and am reading a news report of a cougar attack by Lake Stevens... I think Im going to get a bigger sidearm!

http://www.heraldnet.com/article/201010 ... 0/COMM0603

(North of Lake Stevens and just East of Lake Cassidy)

Not only is it your RESPONSIBILITY to put down a dog that attacks YOU, but it's your OBLIGATION to see to it that dog doesn't attack another person who doesn't expect that to happen. A person could be climbing the slope down river a bit, see 1 dog and be watching that single dog, and the other 2 dogs come out of the bushes to the side and attack him, he might not even see the other 2 dogs and not be able to defend himself, expecialy an old person, small person, or child. Children will usually panic and then the 'prey/chase instinct' of the dogs kick in and all hell will break out.

The BEST thing to happen is what DID happen. The dogs left, and you called animal control. Therefore no bullets flying around that may hit a person or even an innocent dog off in their own yard.

I've been training dogs since Feb. 1979. In AKC and CKC dog shows, AKC and CKC obedience, dog sledding, weight pull, and tracking. I've shown my dogs in the Carribian, Mexico, Puerto Rico, Domingo, etc. I have a good idea of what a single dog can do, let alone 3 bigger dogs. Even 3 little dogs can do lots of damage. None of my dogs have started a fight, but they've never lost one either. I even had a guard trained Dobie attack my first dog from behind inside the obedience ring at a training match. The Dobie lost. I should have wrung it's neck but didn't. He'd been attacking lots of other dogs for years and the woman couldn't handle him. Same with a St Bernard that attacked my first dog inside the obedience ring at an AKC dog show. So, anyway, there are some of my credentials of dog knowledge. :-)

Any dog that roams without a leash or an owner right next to it now becomes a target for me. Im too old to run and too old to wrestle it but I'm not too old to shoot it.I look out for number one and try not to step in Number 2.

LOL, Rac you're killin me bro. Between the comments you left in the "pitbull" topic and this one, just can't help but snicker a little.

I'd have waded into the water (since I don't have a gun). I wonder if the dogs would have come into water to "attack."

Isn't that one of the tricks that animals in the wild use to fend off predators?

Jay K wrote:I'd have waded into the water (since I don't have a gun). I wonder if the dogs would have come into water to "attack."

A good idea, and the thought crossed my mind - except this river has a strong, unpredictable current. It claims lives every year.

On a smaller stream, I would definitely consider wading to safety. Humans have the advantage in the water.

I snicker a whole lot my friend. Life is way too short not to enjoy the little things in life.I'll tell you a quicky.
I go for nightly walks as part of my exercise program. One day I'm walking home minding my own business and this dog leaps over the electric fence and tears into my leg.Of course it was a abused dog they rescued. It drew blood so I kicked the dog in the mouth very hard.The owner came out yelling at me that hes gonna call the cops on me.I of course being slightly immature I give him the finger and told him hes lucky hes not (The dog) is dead. I show him where the dog bit me and he apologized. Im not only nervous around dogs but after that I use way more caution and carry my sword cane.I survived 12 years of Seattle public Schools. I lived through race riots and and 3 wars. Im not gonna be taken out by somebodies mutt.About a week later the owners came by my house with a bottle of Glen Livid Single malt scotch and apologized.So yes I guess I'm a lil scared or uneasy around dogs.

I had a similar experience on Ohop Creek not too long ago. Four medium sized dogs come down to the waters edge raising hell. Not much I could do if they did decide to jump me, the only thing I had to defend myself was a pair of pliers, a pocket knife and a couple softball sized rocks out of the creek.

Fortunately, the owner came out of the woods and corralled them...but had the owner not been there, who knows how it would have turned out. They didn't appear to be messing around.

Now I carry a .40 and a couple magazines of hallow points...hopefully, I'll never need it. But if I do, there's plenty of sucking chest wounds to go around.

racfish wrote:I use way more caution and carry my sword cane.

That should be your signature for the forum, lol. Priceless.

In that situation you had all the right to shoot. Three dawgs that size could easily have killed you. I'm pretty sure if that was me, those dogs never would have made it to animal control. If they did it to you and that other guy with his dog, they've done things like that before and would have continued to do it. Think about what happened to you happening to child playing in the park. Not good. They were dangerous and that community would be better without them. When I fish with my Dad I carry our .45 for just those situation, especially in the backcountry.

Well if I go into the back crountry I'd carry my .44 mag, but I sold that a couple weeks ago. I still have the .357 that I carry now and then. And a .45 Long Colt that'll work also. And my usual in town carry weapon, a .380 PPK. But the .380 could have a problem penatrating a skull, so a person would have to aim for the face, then the neck to get the spine. Loaded with Hydroshocks. And an extra clip too.

I've been wanting to get a .40 cal. Either a model 21, 22, or 27. I forget now, I'd have to look at the paperwork to remember which I was wanting.

In all of my 50 years of fishing, I have never had a dangerous encounter with a dog. The worst I have experienced is a big old friendly lab coming out of the water with a stick in his mouth and then shaking water all over me.

Out at the stables last weekend, these two dogs came out of nowhere, labs I think. The female was obviously in heat, and the male was all worked up and acting crazy. The kids were trapped on top of the hay bails and I really thought that dog was going to bite me - owner showed up about 15 seconds later, but that was a really long 15 seconds for me.

The only time I have really had bad experiences with dogs was doing stream surveys for NSEA while I was still in college. We would walk reaches of different creeks up in B'ham and a lot of them ran through private property. There is one creek in particular I remember having like 5 dogs, probably guard dogs, that would go on the offensive every time we would come through there (once a week). We couldn't carry any weapons with us, it sucked, all we had was our fish pew and CWT wand. One of my partners got in the habit of carrying a can of bear mace, we never used it but it was always a butt puckering experience walking through that reach. I have had similar experiences working for WDFW, the state won't let their employees carry firearms in the field.

Mr. Lucky its probably better you didn't shoot. As a CCW carrier myself, most cities/towns such as the lovely city of Tacoma have ordinances against guns in public parks I don't know about in your area though. But if you did have to shoot and there are such ordinances in place hopefully the responding officer could see past the gun in the park thing and not charge you with a gun crime.