would you use a boat left on the shore of a secluded lake?

[drysuperfly52]

after a morning of fishing with Quadfather and Motoboat, the the pond we were at had two abandoned (but in good condition) boats on the shore. Motoboat informed me that one of that has oars and is not chained/locked, he asked if i would fish with this strangers boat.

I personally would fish with the boat, being sure that I tied it up tight, left it clean, and in the same spot when i was done. the boat is on public land and there is no indication that it belongs to any one person (obviously it does but there is no way to know). I would also use a random boat that wasn't locked but if it didn't have oars i would bring my own.

What would you do? We all have seen boats left on the shore with no owner anywhere to be found.

[Amx]

I used one once. At Pine lake. It had only a paddle.


Ok, Pine lake isn't really a secluded lake.





BUT!


I had to go potty, and MY boat drifted off the beach whilst doing so. So I used that boat to go get my boat.

[Larry3215]

I ask myself if I would want some stranger using my boat if I had to leave it somewhere for a while. The answer is no.

To me its the same as "borrowing" a strangers car or bicycle or lawnmower or what ever just because no one happens to be around

[ncwflounderer]

if it were like an alpine lake, where maybe the boat had to be brought in, yes i would use it, and be kind to it. If they left the boat where it was in view, and obvious no one around, then i think they left it to be used. just a boat on the shore at public beach, no, they left it there with confidence in the human people to leave things that aren't there alone.

[The Quadfather]

This was a very random strange pond in the woods. Not at all like you found a boat sitting alone on a beach somewhere on Lake WA.
That being said, I think a person leaves a boat somewhere like this, out of convience to themselves. It is sea worthy, but of minimal value. If you leave it there, you would have to expect someone to use it.
I myself generally avoid conflict, and prob would not use it just because I wouldn't want a possible confrontation with the owner.

[Diverdoyle]

Would you let someone barrow you wife .. Daughter ... Hunting dog ?? Lol

[zen leecher aka Bill W]

I saw one up on Lake Isabel. It had to be flown in to get there.

[MotoBoat]

Due to the hike in access, there is a convenience factor when deciding to borrow it or not. If it were a planned fishing trip to the pond, and I had a float tube, it would be from that.

If I was driving by, had a hour or so, or did not have something convenient to hike in, the boat might be the ticket.

I would let my conscience be the final guide.

[Larry3215]

This was a very random strange pond in the woods. Not at all like you found a boat sitting alone on a beach somewhere on Lake WA.
That being said, I think a person leaves a boat somewhere like this, out of convience to themselves. It is sea worthy, but of minimal value. If you leave it there, you would have to expect someone to use it.
I myself generally avoid conflict, and prob would not use it just because I wouldn't want a possible confrontation with the owner.

Why in the world would you expect people to use YOUR property without YOUR permission? If I went to the trouble of putting MY boat there - anywhere actually - then I would expect it to NOT be used by random people wandering by. I expect people to have a little common sense and common courtesy and to not take my things without asking first.

I would consider it theft and I would react to someone I found using my boat without my express permission as if I had caught a thief. Im pretty sure the definition of theft is taking things that dont belong to you without permission.

You can try telling the judge you were "just borrowing it" and see how far you get

To me it doesnt matter why or how the boat got there. Its not my boat, so I wont use it. If it is my boat, you better not use it without asking first. Just because Im not around doesnt mean I give permission.

I suspect most people would react the same way. For sure you had better hope you dont "borrow" my brother in laws boat when he is out in the boonies. He never goes anywhere unless he is packing (gun nut describes him perfectly) and he takes a much dimmer view of theft than I do. You could easily find yourself on the wrong side of a loaded weapon.

[MotoBoat]

I could understand someone being bent if you borrowed it. I could also see someone being okay with it. Leaving a boat, abandoned on a pond, open to the public might not be "okay" with the judge either. If there is no identifiable features like a WA registration on the boat, who's is the owner, the person that walks up and says it is?

I am not saying it is okay to use this boat, nor is producing a firearm in this situation.

So, maybe we can put the gun away and call it a truce?

If the row boat owner randomly returned to use the boat, and it was found someone is rowing around using it, not actively removing it from the water and walking it back to there vehicle. Would be a stretch to say they were stealing it.

Again, this is not private property.

[Larry3215]

The lake may not be private property, but the boat sure as heck is.

So your also ok with "using" my tent or my camp stove or my mountain bike or what ever if you happen to wander into my wilderness camp and Im away? How about the stuff in my truck or the truck itself if I leave it parked out in the woods?

Leaving your car parked on the side of a public road is no different than leaving your boat parked on the side of a public lake.

How do you know the owner isnt just a short hike away or taking a dump behind some bushes or permanently camped just over the hill?

And more importantly - why would any of that make a difference?

Sorry to seem like Im picking on you. I dont mean to do that. I just cant believe anyone would think its ok to take someone elses property under any circumstances.

Also, my brother in law isn't the truce making, reasonable type. He is more the hot headed, stand your ground and defend your stuff kind of gun nut. Thats why he carries a gun in the first place. He is the kind of gun nut who dreams of catching someone "in the act". That would really 'make his day'.

[drysuperfly52]

Wow I guess I am really out of the general consensus on this subject.

If I left an old boat on the shore of a public lake on public access (in the woods not a public swim beach or anything like that) I would expect other people to use it, and as long it was back how I left it I wouldn't mind in the lease bit.

@Larry, your brother doesn't live in North Snohomish county does he There is a fine line to common sense and making the right decision. Obviously if it looks like it is in "active" i wouldn't mess with it. There are extremes to everything, If someone went to an extreme (taking a tent or car) I could see a firearm being pulled, but a row boat in a public area sounds like the guy holding the gun would be in a lot more hot water then the guy rowing an unmarked dingy.

[The Quadfather]

OK..OK.. It's only a fishing forum conversation.

I just wanted to say we may be misunderstanding each other.
When I said that I WOULD expect people to use my item if I left it unattended in the woods. (Not to mention no name or identifying information--private propert sign across boat, etc.

This doesn't mean that I left it there for the general public. Or that I support the idea of help yourself.

It means that honestly I don't have as much faith in the general public to keep their hands off of stuff. Even if just borrowing it, not stealing.
When I leave my car unlocked, i completly expect someone to either be sleeping in in the morning when I get there, or at least I do expect that someone will have gone through the glove box.
So, yeah.. One person's idea of it's OK to just use something is really only goverened by their own decision making. I can't control that.
I just feel like without at least having something identifying the item with one's name on it, how does a guy showing up holding a gun have any case to being the owner?

So again, I'm not saying people should help themselves. I am just saying that I everbody's own moral compass is a little different, and someone will try out your item if you leave it without a sign.

Not meaning start a big thing here.

[zen leecher aka Bill W]

Maybe the length of time away from "camp" or the boat needs to be defined. If a person leaves something sit unattended for two weeks on public property that's kinda in violation of the law (or very close to it). Duck blinds built on public property are defined as "first come, first serve" even if a private individual built it.

[Larry3215]

Sorry, dont want to start a battle either. We are all friends here just having a lively conversation with different points of view - at least until one of you touches my boat ;)

On the gun thing - I am NOT advocating or condoning the use of a gun to stop someone borrowing your boat or for any other reason. My brother in law is a dangerous nut as far as Im concerned. Im just pointing out that he is the type of person you may well run into if you do "borrow" some one elses boat. Seems to me your more likely to run into that type of person out in the woods anyway.

As far as leaving things without a sign on them or determining how long something has been left untended - again - what difference does that make? Do you leave signs on your car or bicycle or motor cycle when you park? How about your tent or camping gear when you're camping? How about if I leave my laptop in the library - is it ok to take it home with you or even just use it to check your e-mail?

There is an empty field at the edge of the woods near me where kids go play. They often leave bikes and other toys out there - sometimes for days at a time. Is it ok for someone to take one of their bikes for a ride just because its been sitting for a while?

Even if the item is abandoned, Im pretty sure the law doesnt allow you to just take it if you feel like it based on your personal definition of property rights.

Im sure all of you know about boats being abandoned in slips and in harbors all over the place. I talked to the city of Gig Harbor and the Coast Guard when I saw a small (18') boat moored in the harbor that was sinking. This was maybe 7 or 8 years ago. Both said they couldnt do anything until after it sank. Too much chance of getting sued by an angry owner if they towed it without permission - unless it was an immediate hazard to other property or persons. Just sinking didnt count. I was told they would have the sheriff try to contact the owner. If it did sink AND I saw oil or fuel coming from it, then give them a call back.

If the 'powers that be' cant touch an abandoned boat thats sinking, Im pretty sure you would be in the wrong for taking one for a spin without permission. I think they call that Joy Riding and its no different from theft in the eyes of the law.

Any way, hope I havent offended anyone. Thats not my intention!

I dont care if you bring a banana onboard, but you better keep your sticky hands off my boat when Im not around

[The Quadfather]

It's all good Larry.
You made some good points.
Back to fishing! I am all excited for some flies I ordered from the guy who sponsors the Freshwater Forum. Trollingflies.com
Hitting up Lake Shannon, Sat. and I like trolling/flies, etc. ✌

[MotoBoat]

Larry, I would agree some of your points are valid, not all of them would apply as the conversation is about rowing in a very limited area, never being out of sight (pond) and there is a clear line between using a boat in this situation and driving off with a car or carrying the boat from the lake vs rowing around and leaving it where and as you found it.

I have no idea what the laws of abandonment include. But did witness this event:

I did come across a canoe that was found up against the bank of the Sammamish Slough. I guy was caring it to his vehicle stating he found it. Someone seeing the event called the Bothel police, when they showed up, the story was told that he found the boat. This happened to be the day after a big wind storm. After interviewing all involved, the police confiscated the canoe, and took the guys name. This "finder" of the "canoe" was told "the owner of the canoe had 30 days to claim the canoe, after that it would be released to the guy that found it".

If someone took possession of this boat based on "abandonment", would the owner have rather you took it for a spin and brought it back?

Since no judges have chimed in, opinions are what's been established, nothing more.

The fact that there are folks around like your B-inlaw is concerning in this situation. Toting a gun around as an intimidator is a "real" responsibility and liability of the gun owner.

In this situation, if borrowing the boat was your intention. It would be hoped that both parties were level headed, reasonable, and mostly rational. I hope everyone carrying a gun or not, is of this mind set.

There is a Police program called "Bait Car". Could this be "Bait Boat"?

It may appear I am all for using the boat, but am not. just keeping the debate alive.

[jonb]

Ive done this in 2 different lakes, one lake has a shedlike structure with a log(journal) of fish hiked in and stocked by the snohomish sportsman club, and comments/reports of peoples visit to the lake, it has a canoe with1 paddle everytime ive been there, cutts up 15" that ive caught. The other was way off any beaten path and required me to slog through thick deep steep gnarley terrain, that boat looked to be 30+ years old, the fish were 10-12 cutts and skinny like snakes. Ive used boats ive found quite a bit, and ill do it again. Ill use them, treat them with respect and put them back where i found them.

[ptfletcher]

If I remember correctly, there are boats as well as life preservers for public use on Hummel Lake on Lopez Island. The life preserver locker was made with public donations after a child drowned in the lake. Some folks, and especially some kids, will go ahead and use a found boat, regardless. Knowing that, the citizens there thought since they couldn't stop kids from trying to go out on the lake, they could at least have a life preserver available in hopes of preventing a swimming or boating accident.

I noticed in the thread an assumption that someone left an unmarked boat only for their use, that others should not use it. I think one could also assume that someone left a boat knowing that it would be there for others to enjoy some boat fishing, and hope the user would take good care of it and leave it as they found it. Maybe it was an act of altruism? One fisherman to others?

[jonb]

One boat i found was clearly abandoned and in terrible shape, an abandoned boat has no owner technically. The other boat i found was clearly left there by the sportsman club for people to use, and it does get used alot, by alot of people. Ive also seen boats that looked new, chained to a tree, clearly this person didnt leave it for others to use, i didnt use it, i left it alone. Common sense goes a long way... if you leave an unmarked boat unlocked, everyone will assume that it is abandoned, or left to be used, if you want a boat somewhere remote and dont want others to use it, lock ot to a tree... i dont think any reasonable person would call barrowing an abandonned boat at an alpine lake stealing...