Carp or Northern Pike Minnow disposal - What is actually the best way to do it?

[G-Man]

AA, any fish that is legal to catch and retain can be used as bait. In most instances, it just has to be dead at the time of use. It was a long time ago that a change was made regarding the use of "sport fish" for bait. Also, it seems weird that there is specific verbiage limiting the use of salmon, herring and halibut to human consumption or bait. I would not only say that you can use carp as bait, carp can be used to chum as well, where chumming is permitted of course. This has got me thinking that a nice, big strip of carp may work well for sturgeon.

[Mossy]

AA, any fish that is legal to catch and retain can be used as bait. In most instances, it just has to be dead at the time of use. It was a long time ago that a change was made regarding the use of "sport fish" for bait. Also, it seems weird that there is specific verbiage limiting the use of salmon, herring and halibut to human consumption or bait. I would not only say that you can use carp as bait, carp can be used to chum as well, where chumming is permitted of course. This has got me thinking that a nice, big strip of carp may work well for sturgeon.

Being as it's washington state, isn't trout considered a sport or game fish? I would think that if you can buy it in a grocery store you can use it as bait

[Stacie Kelsey]

I realize there is the perception out there, but I still say it's unfortunate. I will say the quote about honest managers leaving after two years is entirely incorrect.

I can't speak for issues outside my Region, I'm not familiar with them. But I would always recommend that if the Department makes a decision you have questions about, call the Biologist. We have people come in here all the time asking about salmon decisions. Sometimes they leave satisfied and sometimes not, but they got to sit down and speak with the people that made the decisions.

I'm still checking into the cut bait question, I haven't forgotten. Just been swamped here.

Yellowbear - who benefits from the commcercial carp fishery was your question. The people that use eat them for their religious observances as well as outside of those holidays. And it's not just our Russian communities that eat them. However, the commercial anglers from the guys I know give these fish away to the community. I don't know of any of them that sell them. But they are looking for markets where that could be available down the road. It's quite expensive to get the permit each year, then factor in the gas, supplies, boat upkeep, net upkeep, travel etc.

This link talks very briefly about increase in smallmouth bass abundance. I haven't been able to track down the index reports yet but I will keep trying.

http://www.dfw.state.or.us/fish/OSCRP/C ... minnow.asp

[zen leecher aka Bill W]

I'm curious now with carp being classified as a food fish and subject to the wasteage rule. How is the state then allowed to rotenone a lake and be allowed to let the fish be "wasted". It would seem that they should be governed by that rule also.

[medic1]

It would seem that they should be governed by that rule also.

I was thinking the same thing

[Anglinarcher]

I realize there is the perception out there, but I still say it's unfortunate. I will say the quote about honest managers leaving after two years is entirely incorrect.

I can't speak for issues outside my Region, I'm not familiar with them. But I would always recommend that if the Department makes a decision you have questions about, call the Biologist. We have people come in here all the time asking about salmon decisions. Sometimes they leave satisfied and sometimes not, but they got to sit down and speak with the people that made the decisions.

......................................

My experience is that the Biologist just shine you on to get you, out the door/ off the phone, when you ask questions they don't want to answer. Perhaps it is just my region? Who knows.

[Anglinarcher]

I'm curious now with carp being classified as a food fish and subject to the wasteage rule. How is the state then allowed to rotenone a lake and be allowed to let the fish be "wasted". It would seem that they should be governed by that rule also.

This is an interesting question, one that I am sure Washington and other States deal with by doing their impact statements, and filing for exemptions.

It use to be that people were permitted to retrieve recently killed fish during the rotenone process. Idaho use to post instructions on what to look for, i.e., red gills and clear eyes, so that people would know what fish were still fresh enough to consume.

As I understand it, Washington, and perhaps most States now, have taken to protecting themselves from potential law suits by just not allowing retrieval of the dead fish at all. It would appear that the time of harvesting killed fish is over, and we have only lawyers and greedy people to blame - shame, but expected.

[racfish]

What the state should offer is a free Attorney service to help explain all the double talk in the rules and regs. Hehehe

[iwalton]

What the state should offer is a free Attorney service to help explain all the double talk in the rules and regs. Hehehe

Yeah, the Regs pamphlet is pretty insane.

[Anglinarcher]

What the state should offer is a free Attorney service to help explain all the double talk in the rules and regs. Hehehe

Yeah, the Regs pamphlet is pretty insane.

Funny, but true. I am convinced that every time I go fishing I violate some arcane law in the regulations. I don't do it intentionally, I seldom even find out that I did it, but the regs are so complex that it seems you are destined to do it.

You may have noticed how seldom I have posted this year on the reports. I got tired of being told that Rock Lake in Whitman County is not open (it is year round) or told that if I would use leaches on Roosevelt for walleye (Leaches are no longer legal in Washington State), etc., etc., etc. I started to wonder if I was wrong or they were wrong, so I spent hours double and triple checking the regs, looking for the double talk that may have confused me, or the people sending me the e-mails. Some times it is just easier to not post reports - can't get in trouble.

[Anglinarcher]

Stacie, one question you have not answered yet. blufin loui asked the question on July 22, 2010 9:41 PM, "...the lowly pike-minnow has been a mainstay bait in the past for many fishermen. Since the pike-minnow is utilized by commercial fishing, can it still be utilized as "cut" bait after the reclassification?"

I'll go one step further, can Carp be utilized as 'cut" bait?

You indicated that what we did with them when we got home was our business, but what if we catch them on the water and cut them up for bait at that time? The same would apply to Crayfish bait, can they be utilized as bait?

I would still like to see Stacie's answer.

[rjn cajun]

That`s the reason i didn`t fish when I moved here from Louisianna. I didn`t know where or how or what I could fish because of the regs. Down home when fishing or hunting season is open it`s open. No ifs ands or buts and they don`t have any issues it`s the sportsmans paridise. To many people suggesting things down there in Olympia. Just my two cents.

[Stacie Kelsey]

Just an FYI - sometimes there will be a delay in my responses either due to my work load or getting answers from people regarding questions asked. So, please do not think I'm avoiding questions when I don't get back or get them answered right away.

I got some information from Enforcement in Oly regarding cut bait: Food fish and game fish can be used as cut bait - they have to be dead - they count as part of your daily limit.

Crayfish - is listed on page 134 of the fishing regs. The season is 1st Monday in May to October 31, yes they can be used as bait. Refer to the regs for further information on catching females and non-native crayfish and their identification.

[Amx]

Thanks Stacie, you're doing good. Keep up the good work. Yes it takes time to get the answers together.

[Anonymous]

See I didnt even know that crayfish had a season.I just dont go after them during the molting season. The meat has a foul odor to it,but I have harvested in the past during off months to use the tails for Steelheading.Is that even legal now?

[Stacie Kelsey]

You can only use them during their legal season. That's my understanding from Enforcement.

[blufin loui]

Just an FYI - sometimes there will be a delay in my responses either due to my work load or getting answers from people regarding questions asked. So, please do not think I'm avoiding questions when I don't get back or get them answered right away.

I got some information from Enforcement in Oly regarding cut bait: Food fish and game fish can be used as cut bait - they have to be dead - they count as part of your daily limit.

Crayfish - is listed on page 134 of the fishing regs. The season is 1st Monday in May to October 31, yes they can be used as bait. Refer to the regs for further information on catching females and non-native crayfish and their identification.

Thank You Stacie for your efforts and time to share your knowlege with the forum. Sometimes it is easy for folks to forget that you have a full time job, and a "Life", and it does take time to run down answers to some of the questions. Your willingness to share information is greatly appreciated, and adds another facet to this "Gem" of a site. Keep up the good work, and best wishes to you in all your endeavours.

[racfish]

Stacie dosent get a life Blufin.Shes our 24/7/365 go to person . We do appreciate all her efforts.We might not all agree but we all know Stacie dosent make these Buffonic rules.The funny thing was when I went to get my licence renewed the new rule books werent out yet. To this day I dont have one.Maybe I'm just lucky but I havent been checked or seen a warden in alot of years. Maybe I look honest.So Stacie ,we want to see your schedule for the next 9 months so we can dictate policies to you. Hahahaha. Were not the only site that Stacie answers either. She should be making Director money.

[Stacie Kelsey]

Well thanks guys - I really appreciate it. I know who pays my salary and it's my goal to be available 24/7 to the public which is why I give out my cell phone number on the forum so if families or individual anglers are looking to go fishing on the weekends they can call and find out good spots.

I understand about the pamphlet, believe me. I feel if I can't understand it and I've been working for the Department for 18 years, how can we expect the public too? I don't know the answer to making it easier for folks. Maybe if you guys have ideas, send them to the Department. I can tell you though, I do the historical regulations for our Region and if you think the 2010 regs are bad, you should see what was going on in the late 30's and 50's!!!

So, if you need to reach me other than here my email is Stacie.Kelsey@dfw.wa.gov and my cell phone is 360-601-1168. The only time I don't answer my cell phone is when I'm with my horse, he's not fond of the ring tone. Maybe I should find one that is horsey talk.

As I always say, if I don't know the answers, I know the people who do and am more than happy to assist people outside my Region.

[Anglinarcher]

Thanks Stacie, I'll try not to call you. I already know where the good fishing is, but sometimes I don't know where the good catching is. I have saved your e-mail and cell phone just in case ................

Fishing and/or hunting pamphlets are difficult for sure. It seems like there are two approaches, 180 degrees apart, with various shades of gray in between. On one end you can micromanage the fish and wildlife so that each body of water, each game herd, each flock, etc., is managed for their maximum benefit. On the other end of this spectrum we have one regulation fits all. The problem is that if we regulate per the former model we end up with regulations that are almost impossible to follow or understand. If we regulate per the latter model then we would need to either stop fishing and hunting entirely for some species or we would have to let some threatened or endangered subspecies runs/populations die out.

I suggest that neither of the two extremes are desirable, so we look for a balance. The format that Washington uses is not a bad format, it is just poorly written. It seems as if they have taken a format that existed 50 years ago and they tried to make as few adjustments as possible each year. In theory, this makes it easier to find changes each year, but in practice, there must be a "re-set" where the information is re-organized and re-stated. Also, it seems as if the regulations were written by a Philadelphia lawyer, not an 8th grader. In college, they taught us that every correspondence we send for general use should be written on an 8th grade level.

I propose that the format need not be changed, but they need to have the regulations re-written. Many college students could do this as interns, or on minor grants, and most if not all could do a better job then what we currently have. Additionally, we could probably do well to micromanage a little less, and explain a little better. Nevertheless, to maintain a high level of both quantity and quality opportunities, the final regulations will be extensive. I offer Idaho and Montana as examples of similar formats, but written on a less "collegiate" level. Neither of the two states I offer as examples are perfect, and I doubt that if we tried to write new ones as a joint project on WL that we would get it "perfect" either.

PS, the regulations on Crayfish is a unique one for me. In none of the states I have fished have I seen "seasons" for crayfish, so this one caught me off guard when I read it several years ago. Most states have a rule against keeping crayfish with young attached and some have rules against keeping molting or "soft shell" crayfish, but seasons seem quite strange to me. It makes since for commercial fisheries, but for non-commercial fisheries it seems, well, STRANGE. I would love to have an explanation on that one if you could.

Additionally, the explanation of what is native and non-native is very vague to me. They should explain that the only sure way to tell native from non-native in WA is by examining the claws for bumps, explaining that the native Signal Crayfish has smooth claws, then showing a sketch of this.