Oh no! Outboard probs!

[The Quadfather]

My 2007 25 hp. merc. went into the shop in the middle of Nov. for it's annual service. It was running just fine when it went in. Usually this is about a 3-4 for day turn around to get it back, with no issues. They had the motor for about 5 weeks!
When I called (a couple of times) they said that they had found some bad, seals? or something... and that I had some water in my oil. The parts were on back order and that was why the long delay.

Fast forward to yesterday. Just got the boat back, first time on the water since repair. I am out on lake samammish, cold.. but beautiful. As soon I pull the starter I can tell it is real stiff and not feeling the same? Normally it starts in 2-3 pulls. It took about 12-15. I let it warm up fine while tying gear. We set off down the lake at mid throttle no problem. After 2 hours of trolling on my Minn Kota,, we decide to fire up the merc. and go to the mouth of the creek.
After a minute of running at mid throttle, there is a huge lurch/bump from the motor... and it goes into this sort of continuous lurching pattern. There is an alarm going off, and a lite glowing on the motor. Generic idiot light,not specific to the problem.
I shut her down and checked the oil. I realize that with fresh oil it will be more clear in color and a (little) harder to see on the stick... but the oil was REALLY clear, and I could barely see it on the stick. Yet, I will say that it was in there.
So... from the manual, I either have a case of "Low oil pressure, or lack of oil..." OR Engine running at "Over Speed" whatever that means.. OR engine over heating. I did see water coming out of the motor appropriately from the intakes, so it's getting cooled. The other thing is that per the manual, the motor would govern itself at a limit of 2800 rpm's when it was sounding the alarm.

So, any ideas on the lurching and limited rpm's as to what is going on? Also, does brand new oil really look almost clear? I didn't remember that being the case. My shop is closed into early January. I'm really bummed out. I praise this shop online every chance I get. always get great service, but this time I don't know what happened.

Oh yeah.. I limped back to the dock on a nearly drained battery. even my f.f. was dead, not enough battery left after Minn Kota trolling.

[Amx]

f.f. means 'fish finder'???

4 stroke motor?

Of course they probably didn't say how much water in the oil. So when they open ask them, if a lot of water then the bearings can be bad/seizing, if it's a 4 stroke.

[BentRod]

In light of your problems, I guess sitting at home with the kids wasn't too bad after all! Sorry to hear about your troubles Quad. Did you check the oil after you got home with the engine cold? I won't claim to know anything about late model outboards, so this is the only thing I can offer. Good luck and hope it's something simple.

[Amx]

Oh ya, did you just LOOK at the oil on the dipstick, or did you feel it with your fingers? Maybe it was too thin an oil, or just water. Was it slippery at all?

[MotoBoat]

If I was to take a guess, since ballardo marine took your lower unit off the motor and replace the seals due to water contamination found in the gear oil. They would have at the very least inspected the impeller. Which is your water pump. And, a intrigal part of engine cooling. That is more than likely the problem. Fresh oil can be super clear on the dipstick, so not a big concern just based on oil color/clarity. I think there was something about oil replacement on your paperwork but thought that was lower gear oil replacement since the lower unit was where your motor repair took place. Did you notice water coming out the "pee hole" or also called the "tell tail"?. That is the stream of water that spits out on one side of the back of the motor whenever running. Got your message yesterday when I had one leg out the front door of the house. I heard something about fishing with friends, boat motor malfunction, paperwork. I grabbed the cell phone, and the trailer brochure that I placed your paperwork inside of at the time of your boat p/u from Ballardo Marine and hit the road since I was on my way out the door. Anyway, long story short. I heard you say a phone number when leaving a message but I did not write it down, could not find it or did not recognize your number in the cell phone call log. What I did was rap on the door and slip your Ballardo Marine paperwork under the mat on your front porch. If you need the boat dropped off for further repairs, let me know. I am open for another round of boat drop off/and return to your home.

[BentRod]

Oh ya, did you just LOOK at the oil on the dipstick, or did you feel it with your fingers? Maybe it was too thin an oil, or just water. Was it slippery at all?

If there was water in there, wouldn't it be milky or white after the engine was running?

[Amx]

Oh ya, did you just LOOK at the oil on the dipstick, or did you feel it with your fingers? Maybe it was too thin an oil, or just water. Was it slippery at all?

If there was water in there, wouldn't it be milky or white after the engine was running?

Yup.

[goodtimesfishing]

The way you describe the actions of the engine and the unusually difficult(more then normal amount of pulls)starting, it sounds like carberation. Oil sounds good, I think you said the engine WAS peeing and you would have noticed a hot smell if it was overheated (if you have ever been around a overheating engine you know what I mean). I bet they put the wrong fuel filter in or the occaisional defective one. However this would not explain the stiff pulling feel you describe. Now that I think of it I believe they put the wrong spark plugs in....I bet that is it. I hope it is something easy.Let us know.

[goodtimesfishing]

A spark plug a little too long will cause higher compression(makes it stiffer to pull start)
will cause excess heat(making your warning light come on)
will cause it to run the way you described (pre-ignition the engine is firing to soon as it heats up)
I do hope this is it because it will be so easy and cheap to correct.....good luck

[hewesfisher]

Based on Motoboat's reply, it sounds like the lower unit oil was contaminated with water, not the engine oil, and yes, fresh oil can be very clean and almost clear. Work with your marine guy, he sure sounds straight up to me.

"Diagnosing by description" will be all over the spectrum, only a face to face with your trusted mechanic will get the results you're looking for.

[Bodofish]

The little red light on the front is oil pressure. If it was flashing, it's probably because it was barely running. Sounds like a clog in the fuel system somewhere..... Some 25's are FI some are carbed. Both have a fuel pumps. Take a quick peek at your owners manual, it will show you where the filters are. Is your tank built in? Water seperator, filter? Just a few things to check for next time on the water. Since you're out of the drink march it on over to Ballard..... Fix it!

[Anonymous]

yeah, thanks guys for your input. Yes, diagnosing by description can be all over the place. I guess I am just ventilating my frustration to the choir. Won't know the real deal until the shop opens after the new year. I'll let you know.
and for clarification AMX... 4 Stroke, and f.f. = fish finder.

Edit: Just got my paperwork from the orig. repair. Turns out that they found water in the gear case. It was leaking from the shift shaft and drive shaft seals. Says they disassembled gear case and resealed. Vacuum and pressure tested.

[Bodofish]

Yep no where near the power head but........ the shift shaft has everythting to do with the pull start.

[Amx]

Well, that is where confusion occures. You'd said 'water in oil', therefore I figured 4 stroke. Yes water in a 4 stroke can screw up bearings and cause them to sieze up, or try to sieze up. Therefore making pulling the starting rope hard to do.

Water in the lower unit is 'water in the gear lube.

Just wanting to be sure we are all on the same page.

So, bottom line it seems the carb/oil pump/oil pressure/ignition system/fuel system is/are at fault for the engine not working proper. One of them anyway. :-) Which would make it neccessary to pull the rope more times than usual to start motor. Maybe a connector came apart from when they worked on it. Had that happen to my truck, the dealer forgot to reconnect a wire on the engine, so I had to fix that.

'WE' will find out next week after you take it back.

[mav186]

yeah, thanks guys for your input. Yes, diagnosing by description can be all over the place. I guess I am just ventilating my frustration to the choir. Won't know the real deal until the shop opens after the new year. I'll let you know.
and for clarification AMX... 4 Stroke, and f.f. = fish finder.

Edit: Just got my paperwork from the orig. repair. Turns out that they found water in the gear case. It was leaking from the shift shaft and drive shaft seals. Says they disassembled gear case and resealed. Vacuum and pressure tested.

I know...It's like trying to take a sip of water from a fire hydrant...I feel your pain buddy. I'm sure they'll get to the bottom of it, you'll let us know, and we'll all learn too!! Hang in there!!

[FishingFool]

yeah, thanks guys for your input. Yes, diagnosing by description can be all over the place. I guess I am just ventilating my frustration to the choir. Won't know the real deal until the shop opens after the new year. I'll let you know.
and for clarification AMX... 4 Stroke, and f.f. = fish finder.

Edit: Just got my paperwork from the orig. repair. Turns out that they found water in the gear case. It was leaking from the shift shaft and drive shaft seals. Says they disassembled gear case and resealed. Vacuum and pressure tested.

btw, how much was it to fix the gear case leak?

I believe I have a possible bad seal too on my lower unit, but it's a 60 HP motor.

Also, this past fall, when I drained the motor oil, it had a scent of gasoline in it....
I'm hoping it was just because I was idling or low throttle the entire day before to prep for my oil change. I couldnt drive around full throttle due to the rules at the lake during that time.

We'll see what happens in spring.....

[Amx]

Fishingfool, how old is your motor? If it's old/older do a cylinder pressure test. Maybe the rings are worn. But yes, if you idle around it could run rich and the cold block could let gas/fumes past the rings until warm.

[FishingFool]

Fishingfool, how old is your motor? If it's old/older do a cylinder pressure test. Maybe the rings are worn. But yes, if you idle around it could run rich and the cold block could let gas/fumes past the rings until warm.

It's a 2005 Mercury 60 4-stroke ELPT EFI.

I think I got all the acronym/model on there, lol.


This is the new to me boat that I bought in July. I was running it all summer and fall with no problems. Starts strong. Runs strong. Didn't have any unusual sound/noise. Top speed were on par with the other people with the similar boat setup that i read about. No extra smoke or anything.

My last few outings were at Lake Saywer and Lake Meridian. I think. I know for sure Lake Meridian on the very last outting. At lake Saywer, I never get above 7 MPH? So it's what, maybe a quarter throttle if that. When I was at Lake Meridian. I didn't go above 8MPH because I was confused by the speed rules on the launch. So I didnt want to risk getting in trouble so I was just putting around for about 30 mins to make sure I got all the additives through the fuel system.

I winterized it myself sometime in late fall. Changed all 4 plugs and sprayed some fogging oil inside. Changed the lower unit and noticed the milky water. I'm hoping it's just the drain washers... . I changed the washers. Will check the lower oil again after the first dip in spring.

Also, right before spring, I plan on changing the waterpump/imepller. Since I have no idea when or if it was ever done by the previous owner. Watched a couple of videos and tutorials online. Doesnt seem that hard. It seems the hardest part is putting the lower unit back on and having forward forward, reverse reverse, and neutral is neutral.

I hope nothing went wrong during our winter freeze.

[Amx]

Sounds ok, maybe just condensation in the gear lube. It'll do that if outside in the weather changes thru the fall. After getting it on the water in the spring, drain a little gear lube out and check.

Speed limit on Meridian is;

all day from 9 am until 6 pm 35 miles per hour. All other times 6 7 or 8 miles per hours, whatever the sign says. I forget for sure.

Sawyer is the confusing one, and they changed it this year;



weekends and holidays;

11am until 3pm 35 miles per hour all other weekend hours = 6 miles per hour.

weekdays;

2pm until 7 pm = 35 miles per hour. All other weekdays hours = 6 miles per hour. Unless a weekday is a holiday - see above if week day is a holiday.

Always double check, I need to each year to see if they changed something.

[bassboattech]

Sorry to hear about your problems on your motor, a 2007 with a shift shaft seal problem seems odd- may want to have the shop call merc see if they will help out. As for four stroke bearings seizing up because of water in the oil( this is not correct as they are babbit bearings and dont move or have no moving parts other than whats rolled on them)-it amazes me where you guys get this info.