New website in pending battle against voracious pike

NO, it's not a muskie, but it's close...
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Fish-N-Fool
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Re: New website in pending battle against voracious pike

Post by Fish-N-Fool » Fri Dec 23, 2011 12:16 am

Mark K wrote: The Pike will spawn in Box Canyon, and continue down stream from Idaho every year, nets or no nets.
I agree with your general idea of putting all efforts into netting Boundary res. and none in the Box Canyon. Lets keep Box Canyon as a trophy Pike Fishery it is now or hopefully even better That makes more sense then anything I have heard concerning any effort to control Pike down stream in the Columbia. What I disagree with is the Pike are coming from Idaho.
I am a firm believer that all the pike in the P.O. River below Albini Falls dam got there in a bucket.
I have fished for bass in the P.O. River and Lake both in Idaho for about 15 years now and I have never caught or seen any Pike in that system. Nor do I know anyone that I trust who said they have. If there were pike in those waters I would have at least seen some in the shallows that I fish every spring. I see and catch tons of bass in Gypsy bay and other bays that the water is clear enough to see fish so If they were any there i would have seen them or caught some. There is a growing Walleye population though, that Idaho Fish & Game wants to kill off. Seems like the F&G in both Wash & ID. want to kill off every fish worth catching.
I have it on good authority by a guy that said he was an eye witness, that the pike were planted in there about 12 years ago from Noxin by what I will leave as an unnamed Indian tribe.
Alls I can say is tnx!!! And now we have to figure out how to keep the government from screwing up the best pike fishery west of the Rockies. If we can get them on the idea of netting only in Boundary Res. and not in Box Canyon it might be something we can all live with?
Now I have a question, beside the P.O.River system and the Spokane River system (AKA Long Lake) are there any other Pike waters in Washington?

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Re: New website in pending battle against voracious pike

Post by Melodie » Fri Dec 23, 2011 7:00 am

I totally agree with you Mark! My question is, why does this make so much sense to so many and no sense to WDFW. It seems like they have a vendetta out and won't even consider what the fisherpeople say. This issue has been researched by so many and we can be a valuable resourse if utilized.

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Re: New website in pending battle against voracious pike

Post by Mark K » Fri Dec 23, 2011 10:48 am

Melodie wrote:I totally agree with you Mark! My question is, why does this make so much sense to so many and no sense to WDFW. It seems like they have a vendetta out and won't even consider what the fisherpeople say. This issue has been researched by so many and we can be a valuable resourse if utilized.
Money. And I personally feel like its the tribe that is really pushing this. What if thit they concentrated on boundary? Would the Kalispells be able to say "hey look at what were doing for the salmon" and take their cut of the pie? Probably not as they have no land or interest there... maybe that's why box canyon is ground zero? Just another thought. Conspiracy theory? Maybe...
Last edited by Mark K on Sun Jan 01, 2012 7:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: New website in pending battle against voracious pike

Post by YellowBear » Sat Dec 24, 2011 9:13 am

Trout Cowboy,
Reports of Pike have come from several locations in the last few years.
I have heard of one from Eloika.
Two from lake Roosevelt.
This past season a 25 inch Walleye was caught in Moses lake with large teeth marks across the back. However
this one may have been a Tiger Muskie that had escaped the hatchery before they sent them to Goldendale.
I have heard other rumors but the reports above I trust.

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Re: New website in pending battle against voracious pike

Post by Mark K » Sat Dec 24, 2011 11:10 am

YellowBear wrote:Trout Cowboy,
Reports of Pike have come from several locations in the last few years.
I have heard of one from Eloika.
Two from lake Roosevelt.
This past season a 25 inch Walleye was caught in Moses lake with large teeth marks across the back. However
this one may have been a Tiger Muskie that had escaped the hatchery before they sent them to Goldendale.
I have heard other rumors but the reports above I trust.
The Pike from Eloika I'm not so sure of. There is only a report of a "small Pike", no picture, and it would be an easy mistake to make. There are Pickerel in Eloika which I'm sure you know look exactly like a Pike, only smaller...

Roosevelt, I'm postitve there are Pike in there. There are two water ways that flow directly into it which contain Pike. One of those waterways, the Spokane River has had Pike for 20+ years. Yet Roosevelt has never really successfully spawned Pike because of spring water flucuation (same deal with Long Lake.).

And Ive never heard the Moses Lake report before so I don't really have anything to add to that.

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Re: New website in pending battle against voracious pike

Post by Mark K » Sat Dec 24, 2011 11:24 am

Fish-N-Fool wrote:
Mark K wrote: The Pike will spawn in Box Canyon, and continue down stream from Idaho every year, nets or no nets.
What I disagree with is the Pike are coming from Idaho.
I am a firm believer that all the pike in the P.O. River below Albini Falls dam got there in a bucket.
Really at this point it doesn't matter where they came from. They are here, and they're staying here. The issue is now the Pike expanding their range further downstream. I have already stated my opinion that they are going about it wrong and should be focusing their efforts AND MONEY on the area they are worried about. And even then, with Roosevelts water flucuation in the Spring it would take a LONG time for them to migrate far enough, and in enough numbers to a habitat that is suitable for a successful spawn. I understand them being proactive, but I just feel it's being done completely wrong all the while wasting time/money and pissing people off.

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Re: New website in pending battle against voracious pike

Post by Mark K » Sat Dec 24, 2011 11:29 am

Now I have a question, beside the P.O.River system and the Spokane River system (AKA Long Lake) are there any other Pike waters in Washington?

Short answer, no. If you look up Crocker Lake on Washington's OP their used to be a fishable population which was quickly eradicated by WDFW. Other than that, their are strays in Roosevelt and a few reports of random bucket biology fish caught elsewhere. No other Pike fishable waters though

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Re: New website in pending battle against voracious pike

Post by AJ's Dad » Sun Dec 25, 2011 4:45 pm

POR Pike from buckets only? You must be kidding. Those fish are in the Cabinet Mt. Reservoir and the Noxon Reservoir. That puts them in the Clark Fork River. Watch this video. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PFjJfArblSg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Once in the Clark Fork River they move across the North end of Pend Oreille Lake, out the west side of the lake into what I believe is Priest River, and over "ALBENI FALLS DAM", Welcome to Box Canyon Reservoir. How can you say they don't come from Idaho? I have a friend that I would call a very reliable source. He told me last year that his friend had been catching big pike in an area he called the Clark Fork slough. From how he described it, I believe that to be the Clark Fork Delta, just east of Denton Slough. There you have it. POR pike coming from Idaho? I'm a believer. JMO Happy fishing.

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Re: New website in pending battle against voracious pike

Post by YJ Guide Service » Sun Dec 25, 2011 7:51 pm

I also agree I believe the Pike came from the Noxon Mt area during a high water year. Either way there here. I have seen the Pics of the Pike that came out of Eloika a few years back, was actually caught by a guy i went to school with. Unfortunetly it was a Pike and not a Pickeral. I grew up out there since the early 80's and have never seen another one actually caught out of there. I also agree why doesnt WDFW ever consider the opinions of the men and women who fish this body of water. Spend our money wisely and on what makes sense. The last time i looked the employees of WDFW work for us the tax paying public. Please listen to us on this and concentrate your efforts above Box Canyon Res. Dont think for a moment they dont monitor this site and these posts......Power to the Pike

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Re: New website in pending battle against voracious pike

Post by AJ's Dad » Mon Dec 26, 2011 9:09 am

I haven't read every word of every post on this thread but the comment made by Yankin Jaw makes absolutely the most sense to me. YJ said consentrate efforts above box canyon reservoir. I think what he/she meant was "Below" box canyon reservoir, meaning between box canyon dam and boundry dam. Please correct me if I'm wrong but when referring to waters in relationship to a dam, the water backed up by a dam is "Above the dam" Water that has spilled over the dam is "Below the dam". I suggest they pick up their "We're just doing a Fish Study" gill nets, drop them in the waters known as Boundry Reservoir and concentrate their efforts there. If they would add additional electro shocking efforts, they could remove the bigger fish they find in Boundry and transplant them back into Box Canyon, thus helping to create the trophy fishery that "We the Fishermen" and "Fisher Women" would love to see. Boundry Reservoir would esentually become a "Catch Point" or would it be more politically correct to say, "Study Zone". This would keep the lovers of Pike happy, maintain the pike fishery in Box Canyon Res. and allow the fishing dollars to continue to come in to an area that seems could certainly use them. Fact is, the dollars would more than likely increase if this great fishery were to be enhanced rather than attacked.

Yankin Jaw. You have my apologies if I have misunderstood your comment.

"Happy Fishing"

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Re: New website in pending battle against voracious pike

Post by sparky1doug » Mon Dec 26, 2011 10:54 am

My friends please carefully read the article that came out in the Columbia Basin newspaper. This is the Tribe's press release that came out this fall. If you can read between the "scare tactics" you will find some interesting validation of what is being said in this thread. Let us all remember, a short 2 years ago when the Tribe promoted this fishery heavily and supported anglers efforts and dollars to the community. How quickly priorities and incentives change when money "big money" enters the picture. Notice the mention of $500 million in restoration dollars and the involved parties. The studies metioned in this thread do not back up the WDFW and Tribe claims being made, perhaps the powers that be figured we would not take the time to read them. Of course we worry about the salmon and steelhead runs but where is the real proof of the Northern Pike's threat to them? I'll listen just provide proof, varifiable proof. Maine is years ahead of us in the efforts to manage co-existance between salmon and pike, many lessons learned. Why aren't we building on those leasons learned? Why recreate the wheel and repeat prior mistakes in management?
Doug Porter >:"":> author of Forever Fishing Washington State blog.

Tribe speaks out.
Northern Pike Disaster For Pend Oreille Native Fish; Will Move Further Into Columbia Basin?


Northeast Washington's Kalispel Tribe has mounted an effort to turn back a wave of invasive northern pike that has devastated local fish populations and warns that other areas of the Columbia River basin could suffer the same consequence.
The tribe's executive director for Natural Resources, Deane Osterman, during a presentation this month to the Northwest Power and Conservation Council said that the introduction of northern pike to Box Canyon reservoir on the Pend Oreille River has quickly become "a long-term disaster to our native fisheries."
He urged vigilance because the pike pose significant risks to anadromous salmon and steelhead farther down the Columbia River system.
"Northern pike are a threat to the rest of the Columbia River basin," he said. He cited reports that the voracious predatory fish have been found in Lake Roosevelt, the central Washington reservoir backed up by Grand Coulee Dam on the Columbia.
Not far downstream is the Columbia's confluence with the Okanogan River, where much time and money is being spent to revive salmon and steelhead populations.
"That particular piece of water is ideal as well" for nonnative pike to flourish, Osterman said. If pike got a foothold there, they very well could tarnish salmon recovery investments made by the Bonneville Power Administration and channeled through the Council to the Colville Tribes. BPA funds the NPCC's Columbia River Basin Fish and Wildlife Program as mitigation for impact of the federal Columbia-Snake river hydro system on fish and wildlife.
Other sites, such as the John Day Dam's reservoir on the lower Columbia, with its warm summertime temperatures and slow moving waters, would also likely be a friendly place for the northern pike.
"John Day pool has ideal habitat for northern pike," Osterman said.
It is believed the pike were moved downstream from Montana's Clark Fork-Flathead system, where they were initially introduced illegally in the 1970s or 1980s. The pike were likely flushed down the Clark Fork, into north Idaho's Lake Pend Oreille, and then into its outlet, the Pend Oreille River, during the flooding in 1997 that resulted from the meltdown of one of the biggest snowpacks on record.
Flows that year at Box Canyon reach 132,000 cubic feet per second, which compares 102 kcfs during what was another extremely high water year this year.
"We're worried we've moved an issue downstream," Osterman said. "High water events tend to move these fish around. The Pend Oreille flows north into British Columbia briefly then turns west and flows into the southbound Columbia.
Fish managers need to "quickly and efficiently eradicate" any new populations that are discovered, Osterman said.
The impacts in Box Canyon have been startling for a number of reasons. The pike population in the 57-mile-long reservoir have spiked from about 300 in 2004 to more than 10,000 this year. Conversely, native populations such as peamouth have declined by more than 50 percent, Osterman said. Native fish include bull and westslope cutthroat trout, mountain whitefish, largescale and longnose suckers, northern pikeminnow, peamouth, redside shiner, lake chub and sculpin.
Along the way the number of fishing hours on the reservoir jumped from about 400 in 1990 to 76,000 in 2010. The vast majority of those hours were spent chasing northern pike that often weighed in at 20 pounds or more.
"It's been a boon for the local sport fishing economy," Osterman said. But, he said, even in an area starved for angler opportunity, "this is not the right opportunity."
And as the pike population grew, "we started to have stunting issues," Osterman said. He called it a compensatory response due to lack of prey. That resulted in fewer big fish, and many more smaller fish that still eat native species but are not as desirable for anglers.
"The glory days of trophy northern pike fishing are behind us," he told the Council.
"They are an incredibly deadly recent invader in Box Canyon," he said. The pike have undermined significant investments by the tribe, the state, federal agencies and private utilities to restore native species, including bull trout, which are listed under the Endangered Species Act.
More than $500 million has been poured into Pend Oreille River native species restoration such as fish passage, artificial production, and habitat restoration.
The marked increase in angler effort alone cannot control or reverse the expansion in the northern pike population. Osterman said tribal biologists have estimated that at least 500,000 fishing hours would be needed to reduce and stabilize the pike population.
He said with an all-out effort the tribe felt the pike population could be brought down to a manageable level within three or four years.
"We can't get enough anglers, we can't get enough boats," Osterman said. The Kalispel Tribe has proposed a suite of measures to combat the pike invasion in the Columbia basin, asking that the states declassify the species as a gamefish and designate it as an invasive species.
Osterman said catch regulations should be liberalized and require retention of any pike that are landed. The tribe also plans to promote harvest through derbies and tournaments, education and outreach to both the public and elected officials in the Northwest, and the implementation of a long-term mechanical control/suppression program.

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Re: New website in pending battle against voracious pike

Post by Mark K » Mon Dec 26, 2011 4:53 pm

AJ's Dad wrote:I suggest they pick up their "We're just doing a Fish Study" gill nets, drop them in the waters known as Boundry Reservoir and concentrate their efforts there. If they would add additional electro shocking efforts, they could remove the bigger fish they find in Boundry and transplant them back into Box Canyon, thus helping to create the trophy fishery that "We the Fishermen" and "Fisher Women" would love to see. Boundry Reservoir would esentually become a "Catch Point" or would it be more politically correct to say, "Study Zone". This would keep the lovers of Pike happy, maintain the pike fishery in Box Canyon Res. and allow the fishing dollars to continue to come in to an area that seems could certainly use them. Fact is, the dollars would more than likely increase if this great fishery were to be enhanced rather than attacked.



"Happy Fishing"
Bingo! Exactly what I've been saying. Makes too much sense I guess!

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Re: New website in pending battle against voracious pike

Post by AJ's Dad » Mon Dec 26, 2011 6:08 pm

Give credit where credit is due.

Mark K. I just went back and read some of the other posts on this thread. I see where you were the first to mention the same thing I was just talking about with consentrating the Pike control efforts in the Boundry Reservoir. I believe you have the right idea there. Now how do we convinvce the Tribe and the State to agree? Has anyone taken this idea directly to the state? Maybe an email to one of the addresses Yankin Jaw put out in another thread would be a start.

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Re: New website in pending battle against voracious pike

Post by YJ Guide Service » Mon Dec 26, 2011 8:03 pm

Everyone needs to keep sending letters concerning the PO River to the state legislators. This is one way of expressing our concerns to the people that actually have some power. What I meant was down stream of Boundry Dam as to keep them from getting any closer to Canda and closer to the Columbia River. Basically they would be putting in a buffer zone that they could concentrate on eradicating any and all PIke from. Seems like it makes more sense to gill net those areas and concentrate their efforst to an area that isnt as populated, instead of a area that is much bigger. They wont propose this cause this makes sense and this would keep our fishery alive. They have a vendeta against the Pike at this point for some reason. We need to get people that can go to Seattle and attend the meeting next month. The more people attend the better it looks.....

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Re: New website in pending battle against voracious pike

Post by AJ's Dad » Mon Dec 26, 2011 10:09 pm

Can you guys post those email addresses? I have not sent any emails yet but I would like to do so. The idea of pinpointing the removal efforts in the boundry reservoir area sounds like the optimum outcome to me. Remove the pike from boundry and manage them in the Box Canyon area is a win win answer for everyone. I say it would be a great place to use some of the power company money they are all so concerned about losing. I for one would volunteer to help with any program that operated with this theory in mind. Maybe a mass emailing program of fishermen and women volunteering for such a program would get them thinking. Then again maybe a sign up list of those willing to volunteer, generated from this website and emailed to the right people in one email would get them thinking and working together with us rather than against us. anyone agree???

This would be the right answer in my opinion. [thumbsup]

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Re: New website in pending battle against voracious pike

Post by YellowBear » Tue Dec 27, 2011 10:13 am

We need to manage the Pike in Box Canyon.
To let them move down river is like closing the gate after the Cows are gone, makes little sence to me.
I would like to see a Pike fishery as much as anyone but not at the expence of the Columbia or any of the connecting waters. If the Pike were to get into the Irrigation system they could expand to hundreds of miles of prime spawning grounds and then back to the Columbia. If this should happen the Columbia and the Snake are at risk. It has been said that the Pike can,t spawn in Roosevelt because of water fluctuations, the Walleye does, and as the Pike spawns at or near the same temps I would guess they to can adapt.

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Re: New website in pending battle against voracious pike

Post by AJ's Dad » Tue Dec 27, 2011 1:15 pm

YellowBear wrote:We need to manage the Pike in Box Canyon.
To let them move down river is like closing the gate after the Cows are gone, makes little sence to me.
I would like to see a Pike fishery as much as anyone but not at the expence of the Columbia or any of the connecting waters. If the Pike were to get into the Irrigation system they could expand to hundreds of miles of prime spawning grounds and then back to the Columbia. If this should happen the Columbia and the Snake are at risk. It has been said that the Pike can,t spawn in Roosevelt because of water fluctuations, the Walleye does, and as the Pike spawns at or near the same temps I would guess they to can adapt.
It's not a temp issue. It's an effective spawning habitat issue. When the water levels drop, pike spawning habitat, ie weed beds, becomes high and dry.

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Re: New website in pending battle against voracious pike

Post by Mark K » Tue Dec 27, 2011 1:57 pm

YellowBear wrote:We need to manage the Pike in Box Canyon.
To let them move down river is like closing the gate after the Cows are gone, makes little sence to me.
I would like to see a Pike fishery as much as anyone but not at the expence of the Columbia or any of the connecting waters. If the Pike were to get into the Irrigation system they could expand to hundreds of miles of prime spawning grounds and then back to the Columbia. If this should happen the Columbia and the Snake are at risk. It has been said that the Pike can,t spawn in Roosevelt because of water fluctuations, the Walleye does, and as the Pike spawns at or near the same temps I would guess they to can adapt.
Respectfully, I think that is a bad analogy. You cannot "close the gate" on fish. They will continue over the dam. Therefore the only way to keep your "cows out of your neighbors pasture" is to either set a trap on your neighbors land and keep a self sustaining group from EVER starting, or better yet, "kill your cows". However, it has been established that it is physically impossible to kill all of the "cows" so why not go for the plan that isn't deemed impossible?

There would be another successful way to do this. In illinois they have created an electric barrier to keep Aisan Carp out of the Great Lakes. This would work too, but I imagine the cost would be sky high. (This would be your way to "close the gate")

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Re: New website in pending battle against voracious pike

Post by muskyhunter » Tue Dec 27, 2011 7:15 pm

Mark K wrote:
YellowBear wrote:We need to manage the Pike in Box Canyon.
To let them move down river is like closing the gate after the Cows are gone, makes little sence to me.
I would like to see a Pike fishery as much as anyone but not at the expence of the Columbia or any of the connecting waters. If the Pike were to get into the Irrigation system they could expand to hundreds of miles of prime spawning grounds and then back to the Columbia. If this should happen the Columbia and the Snake are at risk. It has been said that the Pike can,t spawn in Roosevelt because of water fluctuations, the Walleye does, and as the Pike spawns at or near the same temps I would guess they to can adapt.
Respectfully, I think that is a bad analogy. You cannot "close the gate" on fish. They will continue over the dam. Therefore the only way to keep your "cows out of your neighbors pasture" is to either set a trap on your neighbors land and keep a self sustaining group from EVER starting, or better yet, "kill your cows". However, it has been established that it is physically impossible to kill all of the "cows" so why not go for the plan that isn't deemed impossible?

There would be another successful way to do this. In illinois they have created an electric barrier to keep Aisan Carp out of the Great Lakes. This would work too, but I imagine the cost would be sky high. (This would be your way to "close the gate")
FREEKIN RIGHT ON MARK! Tell it how it is. Ya know a get a few more guys like you gathered together you would probably succeed in this northern pike fight. A few of you guys need to hook up with M.K. He knows his stuff. Put in in Lehmans terms. Smart talking and intelligent thinking always is more helpful than going around bashing around a fisheries dept that has made a descision. Deal with it. The dept doesnt want the northerns there. But the fish will not be eradicated never will be so you still will have the fishery. A "trophy" fishery..doubt that but a fun fishery for sure. So put that in your pocket. Keep fishin the Pend. By the way if you're looking for a "trophy" northern go east 2 states or East completely and you'll find hell of a lot bigger northerns. Or head to the Great White North...Canada. Not all greatest pike fishing in the world is on "the Chip" either. And I think I know someone who knows where that spot is that you found that noone knows about..on "the Chip". Just sayin...Actually the best fishin is right off the shore at North Tapps Park. Bah! And Y.B. maybe you should ... "get your back off the wall, dance, c'mon."
Thanks for the rant....excellent writing Mark K. Love ya bro!

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Re: New website in pending battle against voracious pike

Post by Melodie » Tue Dec 27, 2011 7:57 pm

AJ's Dad wrote:Give credit where credit is due.

Mark K. I just went back and read some of the other posts on this thread. I see where you were the first to mention the same thing I was just talking about with consentrating the Pike control efforts in the Boundry Reservoir. I believe you have the right idea there. Now how do we convinvce the Tribe and the State to agree? Has anyone taken this idea directly to the state? Maybe an email to one of the addresses Yankin Jaw put out in another thread would be a start.
Here are the email address and a link to the people that I have been sending emails to. It would be great if you could all email these people as well.
http://www.leg.wa.gov/House/Committees/ ... Staff.aspx" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
abell.doralynr@kendle.com
morton.bob@leg.wa.gov
jeff.baxter@leg.wa.gov
joe.schmick@leg.wa.gov
joel.kretz@leg.wa.gov
john.ahern@leg.wa.gov
kevin.parker@leg.wa.gov
larry.crouse@leg.wa.gov
matt.shea@leg.wa.gov
shelly.short@leg.wa.gov
susan.fagan@leg.wa.gov
timm.ormsby@leg.wa.gov
Keep up the noise!

Melodie

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