Re: best photo ever.. 'thread locked' More to think about!

[toxicavengr]

I don't post a lot but when something wrong stands out I will try to make an effort to appeal to the sportsman in all of us and I think we should mention something other than "it's just a pink" that's done frequently but is overlooked when it comes to the right way to fish and a proper humane way to treat the fish.....

Now I am not trying to start a huge crapstorm here, but for all of you guys that go out and see how many fish you can hook cause you can catch a hundred fish in a day... Shame on you! That is just my opinion!

I certainly understand being selective on what you want to take home and it is your choice and you have to make your own judgement, but I have heard the count's and the "unofficial" derby numbers shouted out "30' , '50' or even more...while I am trying to retain my limit and others are just getting their crack fix on harassing the wildlife.....and that is exactly what you are doing btw...so shame on you! it is exactly this kind of "because I can" attitude that effects what little salmon runs we have left.

This is when the catch and release option is a bad thing !!! The salmon store just enough energy to make their spawning run, when humans interfere and play fish, those enegy stores are wasted and the fish you just got your jollies off of may now not make it to it's spawning grounds.... sure, there are millions of pinks but the same guys do it for silvers and kings too and I have seen you!

We all complain about nets and commercial fishing and poachers and the russians or the phillipinos or the native tribes or just people who throw trash or companies that dump oil or sewage or whatever else you can think of that causes "our" salmon runs to decline ,....but before you open your mouth again, just check yourself first and look at the the impact you have...

Take your fish and get out because you can!!!! It is respectful to the fish and our ecosystem and to the other fisherman too!
Just think about it for a minute before you go out and fish again! Have fun!!!.... but take only what you need!

[NFCustom]

I agree with most if that. Here is an excellent read about salmon mortality and handling.
http://anglingunlimited.com/fishing/cat ... -properly/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[spoonman]

So if you catch a big ol humped out buck, not even fit for smoking, you keep it right? After all its exhausted and won't make it.

[Mike Carey]

For a moment I thought this might be a PETA infiltration...

If I'm reading this correctly, it's catch your limit and go home is what you're saying, correct? Would that apply to returning salmon in the rivers only or all fish? Cause where does that put the C%R trout and bass guys in this discussion?

What about slot limts - following this line of thought for an angler to even fish a slot limit fishery would be unethical, because there are going to be fish that are caught and released D/T to slot. We'd be willing putting those fish at risk. Which brings up another point, that WDFW obviously don't see it as a critical issue since they set the rules and allow slot limits.

So I'll infer you only are addressing salmon returning to the rivers. In which case I would fall into the "guilty" camp as I have spent a day of C&R pinks (and chum at Hoodsport) until keeping the two brightest fish I wanted, and releasing the darker fish. I will say, over the past few years I have learned and had my awareness raised a lot by discussions on the forum about proper C&R, and I think my technique has improved quite a bit.

I can't agree that it should be "two and out". I think these fish can be safely C&Red. I think their energy stores can handle C&R just fine. I think nature provides them with the final reserves and drive to make it to the finish line, even if properly caught and released. As in not over-playing a fish, and reviving it prior to catching the next one.

Maybe your beef is more associated with the annoyance at guys calling out how many they caught, like it's a contest?

I hope this thread doesn't go postal.

[AJ's Dad]

I'm not a salmon guy and I am a C&R guy since I don't eat fish. I just love to catch them, or harass them if you will. However, when I read a comment like "while I am trying to retain my limit and others are just getting their crack fix on harassing the wildlife" That makes me think that someone is having trouble catching fish and is unhappy that he can't put up the kind of numbers that some others are. I guess what I'm saying is it may be a jelousy thing here.

[bugmasta]

I'm not a salmon guy and I am a C&R guy since I don't eat fish. I just love to catch them, or harass them if you will. However, when I read a comment like "while I am trying to retain my limit and others are just getting their crack fix on harassing the wildlife" That makes me think that someone is having trouble catching fish and is unhappy that he can't put up the kind of numbers that some others are. I guess what I'm saying is it may be a jelousy thing here.

ya, sounds like somebody cant catch fish

[ChelleDean08]

Haha this chick here can't 'catch' fish, I'm pretty sure I just get lucky and THEY catch ME!!

[spoonman]

By the way toxic, that's a nice fish in tour profile pic, looks like you cnrd it. Isn't it by your standards unethical to fish in a spot where you might catch a fish like that and have to release it?

[toxicavengr]

Ha, I have no problem catching fish, I can go catch and release fish all day if I wanted but I don't! That is the point....and for all you guys who just skimmed through my post and got defensive, and now want to bash me are probably the ones who, wouldn't understand or don't want to hear the point so I will clarify..
I understand being selective on the quality of fish you want to bring home, I am selective myself and yes I return the fish that are too dark, I know everyone prefers a chromer.
By all means go out and catch fish and have fun, but use your brain and fish with a conscience.
Be gentle when handling and returning the fish, the fish literally was fighting for it's life when you drug him out of the water.
I see people just drag the fish up on the beach and start kicking them around on the rocks to get them back in the water.


BTW for you that want to attack my AV, It was the biggest fish I ever caught in all my 46 years and I am proud to have a picture to remember that day. The fish was put on the stringer, was bled out and retained and I took her home and fed my family, the carcass was returned to the river system and I am still using the eggs... So attack all you want .but that was not the point of this thread....
I am human , I eat and I love to fish too just like everyone else here, but "unnecessarily" harassing fish on their journey to spawn and die for my personal entertainment is not fishing It is selfish and just shameful. but that's just my humble opinion.

Again, I will say that you have to make your own decision!!
I just wanted people to stop for a second and think about what you are doing.

[NFCustom]

I think everyone needs to read the link I posted before you attack avenger.

[spoonman]

Now you're just back tracking I did read your whole post and accusing people of getting their jollies by harassing fish is a whole lot different than talking about gentle fish handling and proper catch and release.

[spoonman]

I will apologize for what I said about your profile pic, seeing it in the water I assumed it was released. We all know what happens when you assume.

[jd39]

I agree with the sentiment that we all have a responsibility to be ethical anglers and take care of the resources we use or we'll lose them. Also agree that all anglers have the responsibility of handling a fish properly that's going to be released to improve its chances of survival.
What I don't agree with is equating C&R fishing to commercial netting, tribal netting, poaching and the hundreds of other issues negatively impacting salmon/steelhead runs. They are not even in the same ballpark. I'm not a catch C&R angler but the ones I have come across are dedicated to the sport and treasure the fish they C&R and take great care with them. The same can not be said about commercial and tribal netters, maybe there's a rare exception somewhere I'm not aware of but I doubt it. Please go to fishingthechehalis.com to see how much care they take with protected fish. The "Chehalis fling" is my personal favorite. Equating C&R (the R stands for Release after all) with an intentional massive harvest effort is a logical disconnect for me that I can't follow.
Also don't agree that a salmon/steelhead that has been C&R'd can now never make it to the spawning grounds because it's exhausted the energy it needed fighting being caught. It may be true in some cases but I don't think it's that simple.
In regards to pinks, it would take 20,000 50 fish days to impact ~17% of this year's run (1Mm out of 6MM fish) by sport anglers. If handled and released properly a vast majority of those would survive too. I don't think guys living it up while the catching is good are going to seriously dent the population. I say handle them properly, show some respect and have a blast while it lasts!

[toxicavengr]

Now you're just back tracking I did read your whole post and accusing people of getting their hollows by harassing fish is a whole lot different than talking about gentle fish handling and proper catch and release.

Where did I back track? I still stand by my first post and I reaffirmed my position in my second post near the end of the 2nd post.
I know that not everyone will 100% agree with me but do not read only what you want to hear in my posts or twist my words.

What I don't agree with is equating C&R fishing to commercial netting, tribal netting, poaching and the hundreds of other issues negatively impacting salmon/steelhead runs. They are not even in the same ballpark. I'm not a catch C&R angler but the ones I have come across are dedicated to the sport and treasure the fish they C&R and take great care with them. The same can not be said about commercial and tribal netters, maybe there's a rare exception somewhere I'm not aware of but I doubt it. Please go to fishingthechehalis.com to see how much care they take with protected fish. The "Chehalis fling" is my personal favorite. Equating C&R (the R stands for Release after all) with an intentional massive harvest effort is a logical disconnect for me that I can't follow.
Also don't agree that a salmon/steelhead that has been C&R'd can now never make it to the spawning grounds because it's exhausted the energy it needed fighting being caught. It may be true in some cases but I don't think it's that simple.
In regards to pinks, it would take 20,000 50 fish days to impact ~17% of this year's run (1Mm out of 6MM fish) by sport anglers. If handled and released properly a vast majority of those would survive too. I don't think guys living it up while the catching is good are going to seriously dent the population. I say handle them properly, show some respect and have a blast while it lasts!

I am not equating C&R to netting or commercial harvesting, instead I'm trying to bring awareness that we as anglers are not innocent either and can adversly effect the runs too. You can excuses and justify all you want about how small that can be but it is a factor that should be considered.
I/E in your second paragraph you want to minimize my point with numbers and potential , but the point is still that it is a potentially negative effect....

also I never said that the fish "could never now make it to the spawning grounds".. what I said was that they "may not" make it after being played. I have landed fish that have several hook wounds! There is no hard evidence of mortality but rather a certain amount of common sense needs to be afforded! If you fill your gas tank and can go 500 miles and you take a 500 mile trip you have just enough to get there, now lets say WaDOT decides to do some work unexpectedly and you have to take a detour, you may not make it to the destination. Ok so you stop for gas somewhere, but the salmon stop feeding when they enter the river.

You don't have to agree with me, it is your choice but if I have made you think for on minute about the possibility that it is bad policy to sit there and play fish after fish after fish for no reason other than personal gratification, then there is hope.

I take my fish and try to do as little negative as possible to reduce my footprint, I pick up trash and try to be a responsible angler and I know there are many of you that go to great lengths to be responsible also, but this thread is meant to make the other people think about this valuable resource and maybe change their mind about how they carry themselves!

[natetreat]

Now I am not trying to start a huge crapstorm here, but for all of you guys that go out and see how many fish you can hook cause you can catch a hundred fish in a day... Shame on you! That is just my opinion!

I've read and understand what you're trying to say, but a thread like this, with the language that you're using is pretty much meant to instigate a argument. What I don't understand is that you're attacking C&R fishing completely without regard to tradition or circumstance.

...while I am trying to retain my limit and others are just getting their crack fix on harassing the wildlife...
This is when the catch and release option is a bad thing !!! ...Take your fish and get out because you can!!!! It is respectful to the fish and our ecosystem and to the other fisherman too! Just think about it for a minute before you go out and fish again! Have fun!!!.... but take only what you need!

So what you're saying is that we should keep our limit and leave. Maybe it's okay to high grade, maybe it's not. Operating under the assumption that fishermen are fishing for the table, and are only fishing for food. That's not why most people fish. If we just needed food for the table, we'd go out an buy fish when they're on sale at Safeway.

While you're trying to retain your limit and leave, the rest of us are trying to have fun and enjoy the sport of catching fish. There are tons and tons of studies done about C&R mortality, and the effect it has on returns and the health of fish. They allow us to catch and release fish because it's influence on numbers and health is not sufficient to deprive us of sporting opportunity. The majority of bass, musky, pike, sailfish, grouper, marlin etc. are catch and release anglers. If you view the entire sport from your perspective, the goal is to "harass wildlife".

When participating in a sporting tradition, part of the game is keeping score. I see no fault in anglers taking pride in the skill that they have of bringing in a lot of fish, comparing the tally with their friends. Everyone does it, even in their heads. Even during a pink year, the skill that it takes to get a limit to the bank on some days is more skill than 2/3 of the anglers around you have. That means that catching ten or more is indeed something to be proud of comparatively.

By your logic, tournaments are unethical wildlife taunting. Any competition within the sport is wrong. I'm not sure if you were simply irritated with the cavalier attitude of folks having fun with their fish, lackadaisical release techniques, or are simply envious of the fishermen outfishing you, but you're gripes have severe flaws in them, and your premise is faulty.

I respect and promote proper release of fish. But I relish the ability during peak runs to catch and then catch some more. We all do. If I felt the same way you do about fishing, I probably would simply stop fishing and join PETA. Because by your terms, fishing is simply harassing wildlife, and harassing wildlife should be illegal.

[toxicavengr]

Now I am not trying to start a huge crapstorm here, but for all of you guys that go out and see how many fish you can hook cause you can catch a hundred fish in a day... Shame on you! That is just my opinion!

I've read and understand what you're trying to say, but a thread like this, with the language that you're using is pretty much meant to instigate a argument. What I don't understand is that you're attacking C&R fishing completely without regard to tradition or circumstance.

...while I am trying to retain my limit and others are just getting their crack fix on harassing the wildlife...
This is when the catch and release option is a bad thing !!! ...Take your fish and get out because you can!!!! It is respectful to the fish and our ecosystem and to the other fisherman too! Just think about it for a minute before you go out and fish again! Have fun!!!.... but take only what you need!

So what you're saying is that we should keep our limit and leave. Maybe it's okay to high grade, maybe it's not. Operating under the assumption that fishermen are fishing for the table, and are only fishing for food. That's not why most people fish. If we just needed food for the table, we'd go out an buy fish when they're on sale at Safeway.

While you're trying to retain your limit and leave, the rest of us are trying to have fun and enjoy the sport of catching fish. There are tons and tons of studies done about C&R mortality, and the effect it has on returns and the health of fish. They allow us to catch and release fish because it's influence on numbers and health is not sufficient to deprive us of sporting opportunity. The majority of bass, musky, pike, sailfish, grouper, marlin etc. are catch and release anglers. If you view the entire sport from your perspective, the goal is to "harass wildlife".

When participating in a sporting tradition, part of the game is keeping score. I see no fault in anglers taking pride in the skill that they have of bringing in a lot of fish, comparing the tally with their friends. Everyone does it, even in their heads. Even during a pink year, the skill that it takes to get a limit to the bank on some days is more skill than 2/3 of the anglers around you have. That means that catching ten or more is indeed something to be proud of comparatively.

By your logic, tournaments are unethical wildlife taunting. Any competition within the sport is wrong. I'm not sure if you were simply irritated with the cavalier attitude of folks having fun with their fish, lackadaisical release techniques, or are simply envious of the fishermen outfishing you, but you're gripes have severe flaws in them, and your premise is faulty.

I respect and promote proper release of fish. But I relish the ability during peak runs to catch and then catch some more. We all do. If I felt the same way you do about fishing, I probably would simply stop fishing and join PETA. Because by your terms, fishing is simply harassing wildlife, and harassing wildlife should be illegal.

Putting words in my mouth now. Your attitude is just exactly what I mean. My gripes are mine and I am expressing my opinion so they are not flawed and my premise is not faulty when once again all I am trying to do is get people to think,

You can fish however the **** you want and obviously you will no matter what logic is presented sir. fine with me, out fish me? I don't think so! it is your ego that is flawed and I totally expected a response like yours.
When someones methods are critiqued they become defensive and lash out in fear that someone is trying to take something from them. obviously a nerve has been struck.
Good! that is what I was trying to do.
Take global warming for instance, there is a great multitude that refuses to admit that our presence and release of fossil fuels has anything to do with anything, and yet those are the same ones profiting . God forbid that someone suggests that the massive release of stored sunlight from fossil fuels (gas) could possible increase CO2, fine particulates, and pollutants that could change our climate.... Remember I said "suggest" even though there is plenty of science to "suggest" that we are a contributing factor.
Yet those who suggest that it might be a good idea to stop and think about making a change in how we do things get attacked.
I stated what I see and gave my opinion and made a suggestion. Now I have people attacking my credibility my logic, putting words in my mouth and even adding conclusions that I did not make, oh and even questioning my ability to fish. HMMM!
Coincidence? LOL
I fish just fine and my conscience is clear!

[needs2hunt]

I'm glad your conscience is clear... And your opinion is just that...

So what would you like me to do about the way I fish????

Just so you know... I don't go fishing for dieing fish!!! I do like to eat salmon, so don't get me wrong... but the salmon i eat come from the salt... earlier in there life cycle...

getting back to my first question...

I'm a warm water species fisherman... I target largemouth and smallmouth bass... I do not keep ANY of the fish that i catch... I handle the fish as gentle as I can, weigh them if they are big enough, measure them, take photo's, then back in the water... is that to much stress for them???? they were never meant to be caught... what about tournament fishermen, when they keep the fish they catch in a livewell for 8 hours ???? I have read many articles on fish mortality...

I don't understand where you can say catch your limit and leave, when you yourself said that you release the dark ones to catch better fish worth keeping.....

[spoonman]

Nate is quoting you directly, how is that putting words in your mouth?

[AJ's Dad]

At this point it looks like Toxic Avenger got what he was looking for by stirring folks up with this thread.
I like the way he started the initial post. "I don't post a lot " Maybe keep it that way??????

[fear_no_fish]

others are just getting their crack fix on harassing the wildlife.....and that is exactly what you are doing btw...so shame on you!
"obviously a nerve has been struck. Good! that is what I was trying to do."
"Now I have people attacking my credibility my logic"

It's nice that you care about our salmon runs but when you come onto the internet attacking other anglers for your own opinions you better expect to be attacked back about those opinions.