Re: best photo ever.. 'thread locked' More to think about!

[bugmasta]

there needs to be a "pissing match" or "butt hurt" emoticon. both would be fitting for this thread.

[Amx]

some of us are just

[Bodofish]

there needs to be a "pissing match" or "butt hurt" emoticon. both would be fitting for this thread.

X2

[jd39]

I'm lost on what your point is toxicavenger. There are a lot of logical and argumentative disconnects in what you're saying and how you're defending your statements.
If you basic point is that fishing can hurt fish, I'll counter that water is wet, it's about as insightful and thought provoking. And if you're against it, I'm really confused why you fish? You could have a greater impact by retaining your limit and going home then someone C&Ring all day.
If your point was anglers have a responsibility to behave ethically, that's a no brainer as well. We may just disagree on how to define "ethical". I don't put C&R in the unethical camp even if it's a lot of fish C&R'd, perhaps you do, not sure now with some of your statements. I'd agree an angler flinging fish after fish back into the water with no regard or respect for them is unethical behavior. Except when rock bass are the victims....but that's a different discussion.

It's nothing personal man, just a difference of opinion on the subject and how to argue logically. If I met you on the water I'd still buy you a beer and would not insult your fishing skills (trust me they're more advanced than mine on rivers). Take care.

[spoonman]

At this point it looks like Toxic Avenger got what he was looking for by stirring folks up with this thread.
I like the way he started the initial post. "I don't post a lot " Maybe keep it that way??????

[bugmasta]

i'm waiting for the the "i'm gonna take my ball and go home" comment.

[Mike Carey]

I'd like to try to get back to the core statement...

I think the original stated premise was that C&Ring of salmon that have returned to a river to spawn can cause an increased mortality of these fish since they have reached the end of their life cycle, and to do so non-stop is unethical.

Did I basically summarize your post correctly?

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If that is the hypothesis, I'd have to say I don't concur. Like anything, it can certainly be true in some cases, but I personally doubt it reaches the threshold of risk to salmon populations. I can't give you any documentation to back that up, it's just my gut feeling.
I do know that people that have gone to school and got advanced educations in fisheries (i.e. WDFW fish managers) don't seem too concerned or you can bet they would add restrictive rules to protect these fish as well, just as they have the "can't remove fish entirely from the water" rule. So I would say the lack of WDFW fishing regs regarding non-stop C&R is an indication that there isn't sufficient science to warrant restricting this practice.
JMO.

PS, I'd sure like to hear from one of our WDFW members if they are willing to chime in.

[toxicavengr]

Ok so it seems I have a lot to respond to, bear with me and I will try to address everyone in one post....

I'm glad your conscience is clear... And your opinion is just that...

So what would you like me to do about the way I fish????

I am specifically addressing the decline in salmon runs and the nonchalant attitude of the fishermen who feel the need to stroke their ego's with some ridiculous fish count in a days outing vs the potential negative impact they could have long term. the salmon ,run are "ours" collectively as a group of all involved and I am simply asking people to stop and think. If everyone who takes the time to read this post will notice, the thread title was, "More to think about" following the other locked thread which "someone" stated "it's just a pink"... I found that statement to be callous and insensitive to not just the fish but to all others who enjoy the "privilege" of fishing our amazing and unique fisheries!
I am not asking you or anyone else to do anything about the way you fish. What I want is for each and everyone to ask themselves if they are doing their part in preserving what we have left in a declining and mismanaged fishery. but you can see the resistance just in this thread from people who have become comfortable and complacent in what the state gives us and they demand their right to fish instead of thinking beyond themselves and their precious egos.

For the record, I fish for sustenance, I do not condemn fishing for sport in fisheries that are properly managed but our salmon are not managed properly in many ways on many levels and what I propose is not by any means absurd except to those that wish to exploit the privilege for their own gratification. Lets come back to this thread in the future when salmon fishing is outlawed or the salmon are just flat extinct and then ask the question...Was there anything we could have done, anything at all to help prevent this???? All I want is for you to ask yourself if you did enough.
spoonman....

Nate is quoting you directly, how is that putting words in your mouth?

The majority of bass, musky, pike, sailfish, grouper, marlin etc. are catch and release anglers. If you view the entire sport from your perspective, the goal is to "harass wildlife".
By your logic, tournaments are unethical wildlife taunting. Any competition within the sport is wrong.
by your terms, fishing is simply harassing wildlife, and harassing wildlife should be illegal.

I never said a single one of these things, they are inferred or assumptions from what I said sir, yes he did quote my post but then gave his opinion on what he presumed I meant on what I said. So yes, he put words in my mouth!

AJ'sdad

At this point it looks like Toxic Avenger got what he was looking for by stirring folks up with this thread.
I like the way he started the initial post. "I don't post a lot " Maybe keep it that way??????

Yes I did intend to spark a conversation, too bad you choose to attempt insult instead of engage the conversation.. but that is your choice, you didn't have to respond now did you!

fear no fish

It's nice that you care about our salmon runs but when you come onto the internet attacking other anglers for your own opinions you better expect to be attacked back about those opinions.

Touche! Yes I did expect it and no I did not expect everyone to agree with me... actually I didn't expect anyone to be on my side. but that is what happens when you challenge the status quo with a provocatively unpopular and controversial idea.
What I found quite childish and humorous at the same time was one of the first insults to come up was that I couldn't catch fish and I was jealous at others wanton disrespect for the fishery! Again just my opinion on others actions..

bugmasta

there needs to be a "pissing match" or "butt hurt" emoticon. both would be fitting for this thread.

LOL

amx

Image

Image

Image

some of us are just Image

couldn't leave this one out!

jd39 I am not going to quote your post, I just want to say that I am sorry you and some of the others don't get my point, I may not have made it clear and you have been quite respectful, so I will try again... Is it really necessary to go out and hook tons of fish to the extreme that we collectively could be doing harm to an already "at risk" fishery just for the satisfaction to out do our buddy on any given day? This is the premise and in my opinion it is quite arrogant and selfish for us to continue such a practice, but when proposed that this could be a negative, you can see the resistance and backlash one gets from the mere suggestion that we can change and make a difference. Other than sustenance, can we really afford to squander this precious resource. The state says.... and studies have been done...and I paid for the right.... are all excuses to not address the looming and eventual outcome. again, just my opinion, but inaction and complacency leads to regret when we could put our minds together collectively and effect a solution to the problem or at least make a small impact when noone else will.



Mike carey
I

'd like to try to get back to the core statement...

I think the original stated premise was that C&Ring of salmon that have returned to a river to spawn can cause an increased mortality of these fish since they have reached the end of their life cycle, and to do so non-stop is unethical.

Did I basically summarize your post correctly?

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

If that is the hypothesis, I'd have to say I don't concur. Like anything, it can certainly be true in some cases, but I personally doubt it reaches the threshold of risk to salmon populations. I can't give you any documentation to back that up, it's just my gut feeling.
I do know that people that have gone to school and got advanced educations in fisheries (i.e. WDFW fish managers) don't seem too concerned or you can bet they would add restrictive rules to protect these fish as well, just as they have the "can't remove fish entirely from the water" rule. So I would say the lack of WDFW fishing regs regarding non-stop C&R is an indication that there isn't sufficient science to warrant restricting this practice.
JMO.

PS, I'd sure like to hear from one of our WDFW members if they are willing to chime in.

Thank you for your reply and yes I do feel it is unethical and could have an adverse effect even on a few salmon but I am only asking us to self check our methods and be a part of a possible solution instead of continuing down an already uncertain path

I have tried to answer all of your posts. I have said before, I am human, I love to fish and I eat.... I do not however participate in "unofficial" fishing derby counts as I put it before and I find it disrespectful to the entire fishery. That is not to say that there are not other things that are inherently wrong and could most certainly be fixed ....I have taken the initiative to change how I look at how I used to approach fishing and I challenge all of you to hold yourself to a higher standard! If you already have and are consistently trying to be a better and more responsible angler.. good form! I applaud you! If you don't like my opinions and that is all they are...my opinions... I am ok with that too!

I just wanted to make people think, that is what I said in the beginning and it is what I did.

[natetreat]

Okay. So you said a lot in your post. Taken at face value, it's contradictory, confusing and comes off making you sound like a jerk. We all agree on that.

What I'm pretty sure that you mean to say is:

I was really disapointed with the post about the fish out of water and being released in the previously locked thread. I think that this photo illustrates the disregard for ethical behavior among some of the folks out there. Not only is it against the law to remove a fish from water that you do not intend to retain, it may also have an impact in the health of our fisheries. These fish have traveled thousands of miles, expending what little energy they have left to spawn in fresh water. It's bad enough that we tire them out and basically torture them by catching them. But to then proceed to disrespect their sacrifice by casually parading around, dragging them across the rocks, kicking them while jovially praising ourselves for our angling prowess - that is just appalling. No where is this mentality more evident than on a pink year!

Just because there are so many fish does not mean we should disrespect these beautiful creatures. It's one thing to politely catch your fish, revive it properly and send it on it's way if it is really too dark to eat. It's completely different to mutilate them. I've seen this too many times, and I really think that we should discourage this type of behavior through discussion and education. It's really important to respect even the times of plenty, because we've seen what can happen to even the most plentiful runs, when we take them for granted. The skagit used to get 200,000 steelhead back, until we found out about it and saw dollar signs. Please try to keep things clean, and think about the fish's well being more. It's the ethical thing to do.

I hope I'm not putting words in your mouth. I get it. But the manner with which you phrased your argument was not very good. If that is what you meant to say, I agree with you 100%. If not, I apologize and request further clarification.

[Mike Carey]

My standards are just fine, thank you.

[RiverChromeGS]

I have no time to read any of this. Honestly completely tired of all the total BS lately. Only thing i read was the first original post. My opinion? If thats how you feel, you are totally missing the point of fishing. Its not a meat sport. Im Not poor. I dont need to keep fish. Im a sportsfisherman. Feel that way if you want, everyone has an opinion but your totally missing the point of why us sportsfishermen fish. I guarantee ive killed less fish releasing them in my entire life than one gillnet set. Get your fish and get out? My opinion? Absolutely ridiculous

[jd39]

We're almost to the weekend and i got Monday off, looking forward to fishing!!! Tight lines all!

[toxicavengr]

Okay. So you said a lot in your post. Taken at face value, it's contradictory, confusing and comes off making you sound like a jerk. We all agree on that.

What I'm pretty sure that you mean to say is:

I was really disapointed with the post about the fish out of water and being released in the previously locked thread. I think that this photo illustrates the disregard for ethical behavior among some of the folks out there. Not only is it against the law to remove a fish from water that you do not intend to retain, it may also have an impact in the health of our fisheries. These fish have traveled thousands of miles, expending what little energy they have left to spawn in fresh water. It's bad enough that we tire them out and basically torture them by catching them. But to then proceed to disrespect their sacrifice by casually parading around, dragging them across the rocks, kicking them while jovially praising ourselves for our angling prowess - that is just appalling. No where is this mentality more evident than on a pink year!

Just because there are so many fish does not mean we should disrespect these beautiful creatures. It's one thing to politely catch your fish, revive it properly and send it on it's way if it is really too dark to eat. It's completely different to mutilate them. I've seen this too many times, and I really think that we should discourage this type of behavior through discussion and education. It's really important to respect even the times of plenty, because we've seen what can happen to even the most plentiful runs, when we take them for granted. The skagit used to get 200,000 steelhead back, until we found out about it and saw dollar signs. Please try to keep things clean, and think about the fish's well being more. It's the ethical thing to do.

I hope I'm not putting words in your mouth. I get it. But the manner with which you phrased your argument was not very good. If that is what you meant to say, I agree with you 100%. If not, I apologize and request further clarification.

Yes, thank you, actually I didn't see this post, that is definitely a well written and thoughtful piece and , in part, I was trying to say almost exactly the same thing. What everyone seems to think I am trying to say is that catch and release is bad. I am not, what I am saying that it is being abused to a point of ridiculousness and that it makes me kind of angry to watch and I felt I needed to say something.
For that and my lack of being able,I guess, to write a coherent sentence I have become a jerk. Hell maybe I already was. my apologies.
I was just addressing all the other jerks out there (jmo) who could care less about what they are doing when in fact we should be more concerned of the impact we have (again jmo). We all share in this fishery right?
Again, I don't expect anyone to agree with me and I have made it perfectly clear that my posts are only my opinions.

Some of you have all the money you need and don't need to retain fish... Great, I'm happy for you! Want a cookie?
I didn't say you shouldn't fish and I understand perfectly what "sport fishing" is. I am sure you need to get out and decompress after a long week of work at the office. Seriously... Good for you, maybe this thread wasn't aimed specifically at you.

Some of us however scrape by and depend on our catch to fill the gaps and forgive me if it seems offensive to me and quite "ridiculous" to watch those "that I feel" abuse the sportsmanship ideal of catch and release. Obviously I have a different point of view than most everyone else. I am totally ok with that and I appreciate each and everyone who took the time and shared their opinions and views even if we do not agree. I do appreciate the discussion!

Good luck and....
Enjoy your fishing everyone..... peace!.

[natetreat]

Okay. So you said a lot in your post. Taken at face value, it's contradictory, confusing and comes off making you sound like a jerk. We all agree on that.

What I'm pretty sure that you mean to say is:

I was really disapointed with the post about the fish out of water and being released in the previously locked thread. I think that this photo illustrates the disregard for ethical behavior among some of the folks out there. Not only is it against the law to remove a fish from water that you do not intend to retain, it may also have an impact in the health of our fisheries. These fish have traveled thousands of miles, expending what little energy they have left to spawn in fresh water. It's bad enough that we tire them out and basically torture them by catching them. But to then proceed to disrespect their sacrifice by casually parading around, dragging them across the rocks, kicking them while jovially praising ourselves for our angling prowess - that is just appalling. No where is this mentality more evident than on a pink year!

Just because there are so many fish does not mean we should disrespect these beautiful creatures. It's one thing to politely catch your fish, revive it properly and send it on it's way if it is really too dark to eat. It's completely different to mutilate them. I've seen this too many times, and I really think that we should discourage this type of behavior through discussion and education. It's really important to respect even the times of plenty, because we've seen what can happen to even the most plentiful runs, when we take them for granted. The skagit used to get 200,000 steelhead back, until we found out about it and saw dollar signs. Please try to keep things clean, and think about the fish's well being more. It's the ethical thing to do.

I hope I'm not putting words in your mouth. I get it. But the manner with which you phrased your argument was not very good. If that is what you meant to say, I agree with you 100%. If not, I apologize and request further clarification.

Yes, thank you, actually I didn't see this post, that is definitely a well written and thoughtful piece and , in part, I was trying to say almost exactly the same thing. What everyone seems to think I am trying to say is that catch and release is bad. I am not, what I am saying that it is being abused to a point of ridiculousness and that it makes me kind of angry to watch and I felt I needed to say something.
For that and my lack of being able,I guess, to write a coherent sentence I have become a jerk. Hell maybe I already was. my apologies.
I was just addressing all the other jerks out there (jmo) who could care less about what they are doing when in fact we should be more concerned of the impact we have (again jmo). We all share in this fishery right?
Again, I don't expect anyone to agree with me and I have made it perfectly clear that my posts are only my opinions.

Some of you have all the money you need and don't need to retain fish... Great, I'm happy for you! Want a cookie?
I didn't say you shouldn't fish and I understand perfectly what "sport fishing" is. I am sure you need to get out and decompress after a long week of work at the office. Seriously... Good for you, maybe this thread wasn't aimed specifically at you.

Some of us however scrape by and depend on our catch to fill the gaps and forgive me if it seems offensive to me and quite "ridiculous" to watch those "that I feel" abuse the sportsmanship ideal of catch and release. Obviously I have a different point of view than most everyone else. I am totally ok with that and I appreciate each and everyone who took the time and shared their opinions and views even if we do not agree. I do appreciate the discussion!

Good luck and....
Enjoy your fishing everyone..... peace!.

Yea, sometimes you see something and emotions get hot. There is a lot of that during humpy season and I can definitely identify with that. I didn't mean that you were actually a jerk, just that people misunderstood your intentions and thought you sounded like a jerk. I hope folks take that from this thread at least.

[kromekrusher]

[quote="fishenfreak" Im Not poor. I dont need to keep fish.[/quote]How many punchcards have you filled out this year, and are you done keeping salmon?

[RiverChromeGS]

[quote="fishenfreak" Im Not poor. I dont need to keep fish.
How many punchcards have you filled out this year, and are you done keeping salmon?

For one, learn how to use the quote button... secondly, ive filled less than 1 full card. I keep fish for roe or a nice chromer for the BBQ, i dont leave the house in the morning with nothing but a limit on my mind.

[natetreat]

there needs to be a "pissing match" or "butt hurt" emoticon. both would be fitting for this thread.

For the win