Holocost on the Skokomish!

[MarkFromSea]

Just posted on channel 7's FB page from a concerned citizen: Photo of several hundred salmon left to rot on the banks of the Skokomish.... EGGS have been removed!

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid ... =1&theater" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Is there an effective way to ban the export, profit, of these eggs?

In the mean time, if you see this kind of waste, take pictures and get them to the media ASAP!

[Weekend-warrior17]

Then society expects mutual respect and peace between America and the natives, Ha never in a million years will i ever respect such people.

[Mike Carey]

OK, this is an issue we as anglers are well aware of, I have to say, reading the comments from people that have no idea this is common practice is the most interesting part. I forget that non-anglers have no clue what goes on. I guess if anything would be able to stop the practice it would be an outraged public and social media is the tool. We should all share this on our facebook pages. Look what happened in this state to the hunters that used to be able to hunt cougars with dogs. The non-fishers have much bigger numbers if they get behind an issue.

[mizm05]

I just commented on another thread the other day how I was just down there this past Sunday and saw a native guy pull up to a net pen in his boat, loaded it up with the fish that were in there...now that I think back on it, his boat was by the net pen for quite a while so maybe he was gutting them and taking the eggs, but at the time I just figured he was pulling fish out of the nets.

So he pulls away and goes about 50 yards down river and anchors by the bank and just starts dumping dead fish back in the river!!! Plenty of other guys saw it as well and we all commented to each other. By the time I had my phone out and ready to start recording, he was done. Dang...

They are not abiding by the guidelines set up in the treaty unless I'm mistaken. I'm not going to claim to know every detail listed in the treaty, but I'm 99.9% sure that what he did is NOT ok.

[sickbayer]

OK, this is an issue we as anglers are well aware of, I have to say, reading the comments from people that have no idea this is common practice is the most interesting part. I forget that non-anglers have no clue what goes on. I guess if anything would be able to stop the practice it would be an outraged public and social media is the tool. We should all share this on our facebook pages. Look what happened in this state to the hunters that used to be able to hunt cougars with dogs. The non-fishers have much bigger numbers if they get behind an issue.

That's what I said Mike......majority of the public have no idea what goes on and what is legal although wrong , look what happened to the octopus guy that killed that female one a while back. enough of the general population informed and social media will do the rest IMO.

[racfish]

As bad as it sounds throwing the fish carcasas of chums really isnt that bad. Decaying fish in a river can help the balance of nature in some ways. Fish add nutrients to the water system feeding millions of other fishys. Taking the eggs out and leaving the rest is a smart business practice. Eggs can fetch up to 50 bucks a pound in Japan and other Asian countries. The chum meat isnt worth squat. I only keep female chums myself. I too want the eggs. The fish I cut up in pieces for crab bait. Are Y'all gonna come protest in front of my house or threaten to turn me in? I doubt it. I caught alot of pinks. I cooked one and the rest became crab bait. Another good reason to release the chums is after they roll back out in the salt they become food for crustaceans or crabs. As fisherpeople we complain about the Native Americans so much its sickening. Im sure this thread wil be locked soon enough. Concentrate on your own fishing. There are loads of other rivers then the Skok.

[Bodofish]

As bad as it sounds throwing the fish carcasas of chums really isnt that bad. Decaying fish in a river can help the balance of nature in some ways. Fish add nutrients to the water system feeding millions of other fishys. Taking the eggs out and leaving the rest is a smart business practice. Eggs can fetch up to 50 bucks a pound in Japan and other Asian countries. The chum meat isnt worth squat. I only keep female chums myself. I too want the eggs. The fish I cut up in pieces for crab bait. Are Y'all gonna come protest in front of my house or threaten to turn me in? I doubt it. I caught alot of pinks. I cooked one and the rest became crab bait. Another good reason to release the chums is after they roll back out in the salt they become food for crustaceans or crabs. As fisherpeople we complain about the Native Americans so much its sickening. Im sure this thread wil be locked soon enough. Concentrate on your own fishing. There are loads of other rivers then the Skok.

Salmon and Steel smolts, up to ocean hunter size are bug hunters. The carcasses provide food for the bugs. They feed the little troutski's too...

[MarkFromSea]

I agree on multiple points! Your analogy of the elimination of cougar hunting with dogs is a wonderful example. The voting public had NO FLIPPIN IDEA what they were voting on. The impact of increasing cougar numbers was never disclosed to the public prior to that vote..... BUT>>>> IT was voter sentiment that changed how things were done.... We would need several years of good PR support and then an initiative drive to enact any new legislation to put a damper on the practices that we see AND feel in our sport..... We gotta get everyone from foodstampers to bankers behind such a change.....because....the opposition has LOTS of money.... possibly casino money but that really doesn't matter... it's big money none the less....

[4steelhead]

It's a sad tragedy what happened and probably will happen again. It reminds me of a scene from Dances With Wolves when the indians stumble upon what was left behind from the white buffalo hunters.

[MarkFromSea]

Don't make the argument AGAINST the TRIBES! Make the argument against the PRACTICES! Punish or change the crime or BEHAVIOR....... Change the BEHAVIOR regardless of the number of legs you have left, accent of your speech or color of your skin.... It's the actions that disgust us, it's those actions that we as fisher people need to document with pictures and get that to the media social and major. Let the media determine the source on their own! That's their job! Ours is to document what we see and pass the info to them.....

I'm asking that ANY comments derogatory of the tribes in this particular thread be immediately removed by any moderator. Not a banishment of the member, just a deletion of the entire post. Thanks!

[Weekend-warrior17]

\ As fisherpeople we complain about the Native Americans so much its sickening. Im sure this thread wil be locked soon enough. Concentrate on your own fishing. There are loads of other rivers then the Skok.

Oh buddy, soon enough with that attitude " There are loads of other rivers then the Skok." the indians will take "all that is rightfully theirs" and then i'm sure you will be one of those "fisherpeople" that complain about the Native Americans. You might want to think about how past events in history have taken a similar path and whats stopping this situation from doing the same...

Weren't the indians here first? witch means all is theres not 50%. and with the equality attitude of society it wouldnt surprise me if "they get what is theirs".

This thread isn't necessary mike all its goin to do is start up problems and get people banned..

[natetreat]

The dead fish add nutrients to the river system, I don't know how much it effects it. But certainly fish dumped on the side of the road or in a field add no value. I'd think that if you were trying to add life to the river system, you'd scatter the dead ones throughout the river, not just in a big pile. But that would be a lot of work for the tribe and cost us a lot of money. Even if they at least took all the dead ones and put them in a pile to compost, and then sell the compost, that would be better. NW Skokomish Keta Kompost. They could brand it and sell it as premium organic fertilizer! Big money right there. For little effort, just let the fish turn into dirt, put the dirt in a burlap sack. Done deal. The reaction from the non-anglers on the picture is awesome.

[Norm]

On the skagit they just leave them in piles in the woods or the side of the road. I would rather see them end up in the river to feed the eco system

[Mike Carey]

Couple observations/points.

I seem to recall (and maybe someone can correct if my memory is faulty) that a couple years ago there was a concern that the massive amounts of fish carcasses dumped around Hoodsport were actually causing oxygen problems in the water. To the point that WDFW had instructed the practice to be stopped.

So now, they are piled high up along the shorelines. I understand the argument about adding nutrients back to the system, but I do wonder - what the picture showed is not a natural occurrence. Having run up and down the Snohomish/Skykomish this fall, I saw and smelled plenty of dead fish. But they were spread out, and not in a mass concentration. I'm not a biologist, but I do wonder if the same nutrients back into the system argument applies in this case.

As to the comments on the FaceBook post, again, it amazes me the peoples responses. I can see the liberal mind-think-angst going into overtime at the posted image.

I'm sure some of those fish were totally edible, if taken care of in a proper manner, the way any of us would have done if we had planned to keep the fish: Bonk/Bleed/Ice. That said, obviously the Tribes aren't going to do this, and, it is their fish.

I'm not sure how I feel about this. I do appreciate reading all the points of view. I think we can keep the topic reasonably civil. BTW, for those that didn't click on the link, here is the image:

chums.jpg (117.34 KiB) Viewed 6323 times

[MarkFromSea]

We need to keep this civil..... I'd hate to see this locked.... My reason for posting the thread is to encourage others to take pictures of what they find and then to pass it on to the media. That's all! Provide as accurate a position as you can, the date and lots of pictures. Let the media take it from there. That's it! Don't tell them what you think, tell them ONLY what you know to be fact.

I just read some of the comments of this at FB and the linked site that it came from. People are horrified! That's what we want to see. Well, certainly what I want to see. Let the media drive the change of view....if it's possible.

Thanks for deleting any negative posts in this thread! Let's keep it clean and try to do something instead of just bickering over it. Send those photos, it's just a click or two on the puter! ;)

[MotoBoat]

That is a shocking number of fish. That picture speaks volumes! Strange, the fish don't look gutted. Even the fish bellies facing the camera, do not show a slit up the belly. I am not saying they're not. Just not obvious is all.

[gonnahookit]

I try not to let this kind of thing bother me, and working where I do I have to be culturally mindful for many reasons (most spercifically, I work with people from every continent, every day). But a couple things do come to mind, not the least of which is, what is "traditional fishing" and what is not.

Until the advent of overseas shipping (and more recently and particularly overnight shipping) I can pretty much guarantee you that no tribe ever did what you see in that picture. They harvested fish for food, and were never wasteful.

Until money came along.

There is absolutely nothing traditional in this; this is all about greed, plain and simple.

[Jerry H]

[quote="Mike Carey"]Couple observations/points.

I seem to recall (and maybe someone can correct if my memory is faulty) that a couple years ago there was a concern that the massive amounts of fish carcasses dumped around Hoodsport were actually causing oxygen problems in the water. To the point that WDFW had instructed the practice to be





I think the problem with dumping the fish at Hoodsport was that even with the tide movement the water especially at the lower end of the canal is pretty stagnant. This wouldn't be the case in the river. It would seem to me that if the fish in this picture were dumped back in the river it would not be much different than if they naturally spawned and died in place or drifted down stream.

[spoonman]

Alot of RFEGS, regional fishery enhancment groups, have fish fling events. They pickup spawned out fish and scatter them around the woods, they make great fertilizer. You'd think they could at least do that. Or sell them to fat cat catfood, the last time I was at the wallace hatchery they were loading a box truck up with all the dead fish to be turned into catfood.

[MarkFromSea]

In the early 70s, I'd skip school, ride my bike to the UW hatchery area, saw them harvest mature salmon for eggs and milt. The operators told me the fish carcases were going to be processed into fish food... So, yep, cat food, fish food, fertilizer, something. It's a waste.

I heard of a similar fish dump at the boat ramp in Rainier Beach during our last sockeye opener.... 8 or 9 years ago. That's hardly a fishery that can sustain that kind of waste.