Regulations Question

[jd39]

Will contact the WDFW but curious if a walaker can set me straight on a couple of question regarding size limits when lake fishing for trout.
On American lake there is the standard 5 trout limit of which only 2 can be 14" or larger.
Questions:
If using bait and 2 trout 14"+ are retained, is your day done? Or can you keep fishing for the under 14" fish?
Since a trout caught on bait and released still counts toward your limit does C&R change the answers above at all?

My guess is since that portion of the limit has been met your day is done whether C&R or retained to reduce the risk of incidental mortality of 14"+ fish you could no longer legally retain. I'll send an email to the WDFW to find out if that guess is correct. Let me know what you all think.

Also - if this is covered somewhere in the regs, please point it out, for some reason I can't find it but thought there was something in there that covered this question.

Thanks!

[The Quadfather]

Jd39,
I understand your point.
" In lakes, ponds, and reservoirs: No min. size. Daily limit 5. When fishing with bait, all TROUT
(except STEELHEAD) equal to or greater than the minimum size are counted as part of the daily limit
whether kept or released."

" AMERICAN LAKE (Pierce Co.) TROUT Year-round No min. size. Daily limit 5. Up to 2 over 14" except no size restriction"

Obviously your email to the state is your best bet, but I myself interpret this rule to mean, that (The (Limit) of trout in American is 5... However..... in that group of 5, only 2 can be 14+ inches.)
So, I interpret that to mean that if you get your two 14 inchers, you are still able to fish for the "Overall" state limit of 5 (total) fish, but obviously you are done with retaining any fish over 14".

For me the point in the wording is the 1st point... You have a "Overall" limit of 5, secondary "To me " is a limit that is being placed on larger fish.
Fishing with bait is counting towards your overall limit of 5 fish.

That being said....
No flame throwers please, the guy asked for people's opinion on the sort of double edged sword/regulation.

Let us know what the WDFW says.

[Mike Carey]

That sounds right to me. Catch your first two over 14" and keep em, you can catch another three with bait, but can't keep any over 14".

[Jerry H]

This is how I work it to be safe. I treat it like river fishing for salmon. In that case once you have your adult limit you can no longer fish for jacks. In the case of American lake. While bait fishing if lucky enough to catch two over 14" I'm done. In my oppinion if I were to catch a third fish over 14" while using bait even if released I would have exceeded the limit of 14" fish, since all fish greater than the minimum count toward the total limit of 5. The option would be to change over to hardware once you have two 14 " fish on bait. That way you can release them and they don't count toward the total limit of 5.

Let us know what WDFW's ruling is.

[Ball_Gawd]

I agree with Mike & Quadfather, but please let us know what WDFW says.

[hewesfisher]

That sounds right to me. Catch your first two over 14" and keep em, you can catch another three with bait, but can't keep any over 14".

^^^^^ +1 and simplest way to put it.

The limit is 5, with or without bait, no more than 2 over 14". You can most certainly continue fishing with bait in hopes of filling the remaining 3 trout for your limit, but may catch no more than 3 more whether kept or released regardless of size. So, if you catch a 20" trout next, you've got to let it go since you've already met the 2 over 14" limit.

[DavidA]

I've always treated it the way Jerry H does, for exactly the reasons he uses.

[MarkFromSea]

Really good points in here! I like Jerry's recommendation.... switch to hardware to avoid killing a fish you'll need to release after catching your 2 over 14". It doesn't seem that you're required to do it, but, it's the right thing to do.

[rockjiggr]

Best idea of all, use lures rather than bait. Drop shotting with a small straight worm for bass today at American, I caught a 5 trout limit with the last one going just over 14".

The way I read the rules, I could have released that last fish and kept on fishing and releasing any fish I caught until I decided to fill my limit and call it a day. I like to catch fish and having the option to release and catch more is nice. I had been out long enough and was ready to head home when I caught the last one so I did just that. I was creel checked at the launch and those fish were carefully measured. No trouble there, all were caught legally and all were within the legal size for a limit.

[jd39]

Thanks all, email sent yesterday night to wdfw, no response yet. Not sure what a realistic turn around time is but I'll let you know what they say when I do get a response.
All comments make sense to me even though some contradict each other, kinda the problem! Appreciate the perspectives! In the absence of a response from wdfw I'm leaning toward following Jerry's advice if it ever becomes a problem.
Truth be told it's never been a problem at least in my boat on American but there are some big trout in there so it could be one day!

[hewesfisher]

There was a big flap over this issue on an east side winter lake a couple years ago and I contacted WDFW for rules clarification because some anglers were being cited for continuing to fish with bait after having caught, and retained, two trout over 14". The rule is clear, the trout limit is 5, and of that 5, no more than 2 may be over 14". There is no restriction on use of bait to achieve your 5 trout limit (when fishing with bait all trout count toward the limit whether kept or released), just that you cannot retain any more than 2 over 14" on American Lake or on Hog Canyon Lake on my side of the mountains.

WDFW's response to me was, yes, it is legal to continue to fish with bait until a 5 trout limit is caught or until you have met the 5 trout restriction when fishing with bait. The problem we run into is separating the "law" as written from personal ethics. The right thing to do if you plan to catch and release may well be to fish with non-bait gear, but that doesn't mean it's illegal for someone to use bait up to the trout limit within the rules for the body of water being fished, and those who do are well within their rights to do so regardless of how others with a different set of ethics might feel about it.

[skagit510]

why not just fish a lure? bait is a destructive way to fish if you are releasing no matter what the fishery.

[ncwflounderer]

Skagit, I think Hewesfisher said it best by saying :"The problem we run into is separating the "law" as written from personal ethics. The right thing to do if you plan to catch and release may well be to fish with non-bait gear, but that doesn't mean it's illegal for someone to use bait up to the trout limit within the rules for the body of water being fished, and those who do are well within their rights to do so regardless of how others with a different set of ethics might feel about it. "

[jd39]

why not just fish a lure? bait is a destructive way to fish if you are releasing no matter what the fishery.

I mainly catch and keep but if ever c&r i'll use lures. In this situation if having retained the 14" fish limit i'd switch to lures to be sure any additional fish caught 14"+ has the best chance of surviving (assuming the wdfw says i can keep fishing at all). That's what my personal ethics would demand of me.
Totally agree with hewesfisher, if it's not illegal mind your own business (well he didn't say it like that but i am) Too many busy bodies in all walks of life these days, personal ethics are just that....personal. We'll all get along better not trying to impose our beliefs on others.

[Ball_Gawd]

hewesfisher, I think you may have missed the mark a little. As copied from the regulations on-line:
"In lakes, ponds, and reservoirs: No min. size. Daily limit 5. When fishing with bait, all TROUT
(except STEELHEAD) equal to or greater than the minimum size are counted as part of the daily limit
whether kept or released."

The second sentence is the one that pertains to this topic. It clearly states that when fishing with bait all caught fish count toward your limit. One part that may be getting confused in all this is the way some may be looking at the limit. The limit counts both towards fish retained (no matter what method of fishing is employed) and towards the the total number of fish caught using any kind of bait. rockjiggr, if you caught all five of your trout using the straight worm I belive you would have been in violation. Bait as defined by WDFW is: "Bait Anything that attracts fish or shellfish by scent and/or flavor. This includes any device made of feathers, hair, fiber, wood, metal, glass, cork, leather, rubber, or plastic, which uses scent and/or flavoring to attract fish or wildlife."

By these definitions you may catch and release all day long, basically if you add nothing to the hook. Any lure is good as long as you don't add scent or flavoring (i.e. worm, power bait, marshmellow).

I am fairly new to the sport, but I think this is pretty clearly spelled out.

[skagit510]

why not just fish a lure? bait is a destructive way to fish if you are releasing no matter what the fishery.

I mainly catch and keep but if ever c&r i'll use lures. In this situation if having retained the 14" fish limit i'd switch to lures to be sure any additional fish caught 14"+ has the best chance of surviving (assuming the wdfw says i can keep fishing at all). That's what my personal ethics would demand of me.
Totally agree with hewesfisher, if it's not illegal mind your own business (well he didn't say it like that but i am) Too many busy bodies in all walks of life these days, personal ethics are just that....personal. We'll all get along better not trying to impose our beliefs on others.

sorry, i guess i just hate seeing wounded dying fish. if you are catch and keep, by all means use any legal methods. however, we need to be realistic, releasing fish with power bait crammed down their gullet is not doing anyone any good and imho a selfish way to conduct your affairs and shows a,general disrespect for the fish, resource , and other anglers. it is my experience that fish are,easily caught in lakes with less lethal methods. if you would like some tips pm me, I'm happy to help someone help a fishery. furthermore I'm not imposing my beliefs on anyone, it was an honest question as to why someone would object to hardware when release is a possibility.

[kokapaw]

For those of us that are trolling, if we tip with corn, maggots or worms are we using Hardware or Bait??
AS we all understand the difference, with the hook being swallowed half way to the guts but I have never seen the Regs stateing it in those words.

[Jerry H]

Bait is bait trolled or soaked.

[jd39]

why not just fish a lure? bait is a destructive way to fish if you are releasing no matter what the fishery.

I mainly catch and keep but if ever c&r i'll use lures. In this situation if having retained the 14" fish limit i'd switch to lures to be sure any additional fish caught 14"+ has the best chance of surviving (assuming the wdfw says i can keep fishing at all). That's what my personal ethics would demand of me.
Totally agree with hewesfisher, if it's not illegal mind your own business (well he didn't say it like that but i am) Too many busy bodies in all walks of life these days, personal ethics are just that....personal. We'll all get along better not trying to impose our beliefs on others.

sorry, i guess i just hate seeing wounded dying fish. if you are catch and keep, by all means use any legal methods. however, we need to be realistic, releasing fish with power bait crammed down their gullet is not doing anyone any good and imho a selfish way to conduct your affairs and shows a,general disrespect for the fish, resource , and other anglers. it is my experience that fish are,easily caught in lakes with less lethal methods. if you would like some tips pm me, I'm happy to help someone help a fishery. furthermore I'm not imposing my beliefs on anyone, it was an honest question as to why someone would object to hardware when release is a possibility.

I agree with you on this one skagit, i'd switch to lures/hardware if faced with that situation and stated that above. I broke the last part into a 2nd paragraph because it was intended as a general statement not specific to you. I did quote you so can understand if you read it differently. Stating your opinion or belief is different than trying to impose it on others. Take care man.

[jd39]

Heard back from the wdfw, The Quadfather and Mike are correct.